Shooting a .357

[Andy79]

As you can see from my previous thread I am new to guns but wanting to purchase my first revolver to carry and have another question.

I am thinking I would like to buy a .357 and if I only want to shoot .38s out of it I can but I also have the ability to carry .357 bullets if I choose to.
But obviously if I buy a .38 I would be stuck with only that caliber with no option for the .357.

I have been told by some that the .357 is just way too powerful and that I should only shoot .38s, just FYI - I have shoot 5 rounds of .38+Ps in a ultra light weight gun and that had quite a kick. But I have also been told to just practice with the .38s with the occasional .357 and carry it loaded with .357s.

So what I am asking is, do you think that a .357 is just too powerful for a concealed carry (PS I am a woman) ? or like most say in that moment that your adrenalin is pumping it won't matter how strong it is?

Thanks!!

 

[Smeh]

I'd practice with something similar to what you plan to carry. That way, if you ever have to use it, you'll be comfortable with it and shoot more accurately.

 

[moga]

So what I am asking is, do you think that a .357 is just too powerful for a concealed carry (PS I am a woman)?

Categorically, no. But make sure you can put multiple hits on a target with which ever caliber ammo you decide to carry. If you decide to carry 357, are you comfortable with the time it takes to recover between shots? My personal rule of thumb for CCW weapon/ammo is three shots, three yards, three seconds. I'm not sure I could do that with magnum loads, so I carry 38+p when I carry a snubby. As long as you feel comfortable with you ability to make repeat shots according to your personal criteria for evaluation, then I say go for it. But I would advise heavily that you benchmark yourself with the ammo/gun your considering to permit that analysis before you stake your life on a platform with which you may not be comfortable while fighting.

 

[Brasso]

I shoot a lot of revolver and a lot of .357. I only carry .38 in snubbies. .357 is just too much in a snubby, IMO, unless it's a snubby L or N frame. .38's will do just fine. I prefer the 158gr +p Remington LSWCHP's.

 

[jfh]

Your question about which caliber to buy actually has a number of other questions buried inside it--but, not wanting to throw too much at you, here's other things to consider.

The first thing to do is to sort out how well a given revolver fits you.

1. Since you are looking at compact revolvers, including the lightweight ones, you need to have a grip that fits your hand properly and provides some recoil absorption. The standard grips don't do that. With a proper grip on the gun, it is much easier to shoot no matter which cartridge (38 Special or 357 Magnum.

2. If you are seriously considering a lightweight revolver--like the S&W j-frame 642 or the M&P 340--then you should rent one and try shooting it. However, only try shooting it with either with 1) 38 Special DEWC cartridges loaded for bullseye shooting (very light recoil) or 2) standard-pressure 38 Special personal defense ammo (the Federal 110-gr. load is one to try).

3. If possible, try shooting that lightweight with a set of Crimson Trace Laser Grips mounted on it--the model 305 grip has a built-in recoil pocket, and that would give you a good comparison. Even better would be the Model 405, which has a better recoil pocket, and is the shorter design preferred for concealed carry.

If you can at least tolerate shooting the FC cartridge in a lightweight, then you have resolved the question about shooting a lightweight.

B. Since the same lightweight handgun can shoot 38 Special or 357 Magnum, now you can consider how much to spend: the 38 Special lightweights by Smith and Wesson cost about $200 or $250.00 less than the 357 Models--but the .357 Models are made with much stronger frames. So, if money is a factor, then you may be limited to get the 38 Special lightweight by default.

No matter which caliber lightweight (or steel) compact revolver you buy, you will need to practice a lot--period. Short-barreled revolvers are very difficult to shoot well. The drill moga recommends is a good one, but it has to be approached in "successive approximations." IOW, start out with shooting your compact slowly--even from a benchrest--and get used to shooting it. Be sure to get some good instruction from the beginning.

Finally--and back to the caliber question again--you should know that many of us who carry 357 lightweights also load it with a 38+P Personal Defense Round. I doubt that many of us plan on shooting a cylinderful of 357 Magnums from a lightweight, even with a more-stringent drill of moga's called the quad five.

Jim H.

 

[Z-Michigan]

.357 revolvers come in a huge range of sizes, and .357 ammo comes in a decent sized range of power levels. Within those two ranges you should find something that works fine for you, and you can always use .38's for practice, and .38 +P for self defense if you want to. The only drawback to a .357 revolver, shooting .38's, is a very small reduction in velocity and accuracy, and some modest additional cleaning hassle because the .38 cartridge is shorter and leaves a soot ring in an area that isn't meant to be exposed. All these are small issues.

Recoil tolerance is very personal and usually increases with practice. Your gender has little effect on it. Your weight also has little effect on it. Your level of strength and fitness does have some effect, but mostly it's a matter of practice and personal differences. What I'm saying is simple - unless you have some debilitating medical condition, no one else can tell you that a .357 is too powerful or has too much recoil for you. The .357 has something of a legend, but really it's not unusually powerful by modern standards. Typical .40 S&W guns have equal recoil in typical loadings. (There are some .357 loadings that are especially powerful; but conversely there is a lot more room for weaker target loads in the .357 than there is in the autopistol cartridges.)

Many of us shoot .357's all the time without thinking much of it. But hardly any of us do so in 12oz airweight revolvers.

 

[ArmedBear]

I have two .357's that I shoot for fun with Magnum loads. It's no problem. They weigh a LOT more than a CC gun would. This is one of them, and weighs 3 times as much as a 642:

I have an Airweight revolver, a Smith and Wesson 642, in .38 Special. It's entirely shootable with regular .38 Special range ammo and with Cor-Bon .38Sp+P defensive rounds, which are made for snubbies. It kicks, but it is manageable. It's accurate and I enjoy shooting it.

A 340 is similar, but can be loaded with .357 Magnum. It hurts to shoot it with full-power loads, and it's not easy to keep it on target. I can do it, and if I had a specific reason to carry a light .357, I could use it.

I am a 185 pound man who has lifted weights regularly and seriously for years.

"I am a woman" doesn't give me quite enough info. Perhaps you have worked on a commercial fishing boat in Alaska since 1980, in which case you probably have "kung-fu grip". However, if you are average size and strength, I'm going to hazard a guess that you will find yourself loading your 340 with .38 Special +P if you get it, unless you are camping and worried more about black bears than people.

That said, the 340 will work fine. It just costs twice as much as a 642 and offers no advantage, if you're going to shoot .38+P in it. If money is no object, hell, go ahead. Otherwise, I would recommend the 642 instead -- that's where my money went.

 

[Andy79]

I should probably clarify that I would be shooting a 21 to 25oz gun so no 12oz guns for me.
I'm think more in the lines of the S &W ladysmith, 640 or 649 or the Ruger SP101.

 

[ArmedBear]

The Ruger Blackhawk above weighs 43 oz.

21-25 oz. is on the borderline. Might be just fine for defense, but not necessarily fun for recreational shooting. Of course, you can always use .38's if you feel the urge to shoot cans when camping or something. Those should be comfortable.

The 640 and 649 don't carry the price penalty of the Airlite series, so I would have no qualms about buying the .357 and then experimenting and shooting whatever feels best.

Also, IMO target practice with low-power .38's is fine, but make sure to shoot a bit of .357 to close out a practice session if you plan on carrying with .357's. They do feel different when you pull the trigger, even in the big single action above.

 

[Mike Franklin]

Why don't you see if you can shoot a few guns first then you'll have something to go by? Most people can carry a little more gun than they realize. The barrel of a gun is not the part that's hard to hide. Look for a medium sized .38 with a 4" barrel. Like a S&W M 10. There are thousands of'm lying around and they aren't bad to shoot even with +P ammo.

 

[ArmedBear]

I can think of no particular advantage to a M10 over a 640. I'd rather carry stainless and not worry about rust, and old M10s might or might not handle +P. Leave those old guns for the collectors, IMO.

 

[mbt2001]

So what I am asking is, do you think that a .357 is just too powerful for a concealed carry (PS I am a woman) ?

hmmm... I don't think you will have an issue with it. My wife shoots a .357 with terrifying accuracy and rapidity and the recoil doesn't bother her. I suppose if she can do it, than anyone with the desire to can. The great thing about that, is that you can have .38+p and .38 bullets to shoot as well, should you determine that you (for the short term) don't want to use magnum loads. It does take a bit to get used to it, so you have some good options in the interim.

or like most say in that moment that your adrenalin is pumping it won't matter how strong it is?

That is true. In the moment, you will not feel the recoil or hear the blast of the gun, you will feel like you are moving painfully slow and you awareness compounds on itself.

Good luck!

 

[Andy79]

I can think of no particular advantage to a M10 over a 640. I'd rather carry stainless and not worry about rust, and old M10s might or might not handle +P. Leave those old guns for the collectors, IMO.

What is M10 mean?

 

[tblt]

I am looking at a SP101 in 357 and will be carrying 357 mag 125 gr. bullet.I am staying with 125 and not 158 to reduce recoil a bit.

 

[loneviking]

M10 is a model number. I see you're in Nevada, and whether Reno or Vegas, there's a quite a few good gun stores around to check out different models.

The ladies can handle a .357 without a problem. My wife does and she's tall, but not muscular. I would suggest the Ruger SP101, due to it's weight which helps reduce the feeling of recoil. Or, look for a smaller K frame S&W like the 65-6 which weighs around 34 oz. but is still a trim, easy to carry gun with a 3 inch barrel.

 

[Jim March]

First thing, remember that "357" power levels vary all over the map.

(For simplicity's sake we'll assume a 3" barrel for the energy discussion below...longer barrel means faster bullet means more energy.)

38Spl raw energy generally tops out at around 200-225ft/lbs energy. 38+P ("extra pressure") runs from around 225 to 300ish ft/lbs except for one really impressive load by Buffalo Bore Ammo that can hit 350+.

357Magnum energy starts at around 300-350ish for certain very mild loads, a lot of stuff is available doing around 400-450 and then certain real "wild ride" loads (again Buffalo Bore plus Doubletap and Grizzly Ammo) can top 700ft/lbs energy.

So lesson one is, don't look at 357 power levels as being uniform.

Lesson two is that three factors make a gun easier to shoot with big power: more weight, grip design and "does the grip fit YOU?".

A Ruger GP100 or S&W L-Frame series 357 are nearly 2lb guns or in some barrel lengths more than that. Even for a novice shooter, 38Spl and 38+P recoil will be really mild in these, and you'll very quickly be able to move up the power scale to at least around 450ft/lbs energy. Past that takes a bit of practice and if you have smaller hands you might not get there...but that's right around the power level for most police ammo.

On the other hand, buy a 26oz Ruger SP101 and you'll be in for a slightly rougher ride. Buy a 20oz S&W 5-shot snubby and it gets wilder yet. Go crazy and buy the 12.5oz S&W "Scandium" snubby and the hotter 38+P will rock your world - and the 700ft/lb "bearslayer class" loads will likely break your wrist.

So what to do?

A lot depends on your carry method. If you're going to carry in a purse or fanny pack, you can go pretty heavy with no problem. If you're new to all this, starting with a gun at LEAST as heavy as a five-shot Ruger SP101 with a 3" barrel would be a good idea and if you can pack it and it fits your hands, consider the even beefier six-shot Ruger GP100 (also in 3" or maybe even 4").

I personally daily-carry something even heavier: a Ruger "New Vaquero" 357 in the 40oz weight class(!) with a 4.68" barrel. The first two rounds are good 38+Ps. The next four are by Doubletap Ammo, 800ft/lbs energy in this barrel length. I used one at a friend's range to literally blow up a bowling ball - split it in half and sent chunks of the concrete core well over 20 yards (back past me, which was "interesting"). My thinking is, if my first two rounds haven't solved my problem, by then bystanders should have ducked some and I'll start laying down the big stuff .

Even in this weight class of gun, I had to go to smooth grips instead of checkered to cope with really big recoil at the edge of what the 357 can do. Which as you can see is one hell of a lot...

 

[Catherine]

Hello and nice to meet you.

I LEARNED on a 357Magnum. I shot it using 357Magnum and 38Specials/38Special Plus P.

It was my late husband's (Dan Wesson - no clue on the model.) 6 inch barrel revolver and it was MY home defense gun. (There was no CCW back there and no vehicle carry with a LOADED gun.) I had 357Magnum hollow points for my home protection. I had some 38 ammunition for it too. I only knew the basics and at the time... I was not 'into' shooting tons or buying my OWN guns. I was INTO self defense and INTO the RKBA issue/politics ALWAYS though!

Later on, when I started to buy my own firearms circa 1998-2001 - I bought several types of guns in several favorite and 'standard' calibers. Hand guns and later on a couple of rifles.

I PREFER a hand gun over any other firearm for myself.

I don't think that you will have a problem and I would try 38Specials, 38Special Plus P and 357Magnum ammunition.

If you do BUY a 357Magnum... you have the option of those calibers.

If you BUY a 38 Caliber ONLY - you will be limited to whatever ammunition the manufacturer suggests. Some 38Calibers do ALLOW and can manage 38Special PLUS P. Some do NOT from what I was told. It depends on the gun and the strength of the gun - what they suggest.

My former S&W Model 60 (38Caliber.) from 1998-2001 - did allow PLUS P. PRE lock S&W deal. It was a S&W and they were discontinuing, at the time, the 38 caliber version and mainly going to 357Magnum. I got a rebate plus it was on sale too. Bought NIB as all of my guns were that I bought not counting a gift. Sweet gun. Three inch barrel, Uncle Mike's grip (Wooden ones are nice too!), stainless steel, etc. Nice conceal carry gun if you conceal carry.

I do NOT like to shoot ANY gun with a barrel shorter than 3 inches long. I have tried MANY others. I have NEVER bought any gun with a barrel shorter than 3 inches LONG. I prefer a hand gun barrel that is 5, 6, etc. long unless it was my former Model 60 and my former Glock Model 19C. (I do have a 3 inch barrel on my S&W kit gun - Model 317 but that is in a 22LR caliber.)

I open carry. My husband conceals and open carries out here in Montana. The 357Magnum caliber did not 'scare me' as some people say for a beginner. It depends on the INDIVIDUAL. I am smaller, 58 years old now, have some limited range of motion with WEAKNESS, at times, due to an old injury and arthritis. Holding a hand gun is far easier for me than some rifles due to my left arm/hand. I feel confident with my hand guns and know that I could defend myself even though I have that old injury. I know what I own, what I bought and what I shoot.

Best wishes to you!

Sincerely,

Catherine

 

[Catherine]

PS

PS:

My husband loves and conceals carry his RUGER SP 101.

He carries 'conceal and open with other guns' too but the RUGER SP 101 is always on him.

I think that he did a "Wolf (?) trigger job" and he has 2 kinds of grips for it too.

Catherine

 

[wheelgunslinger]

You've been given some VERY good advice in this thread.
Make sure you read it all and let it sink in, instead of just glossing it over.

I carry a 357 for sd myself.

 

[machinisttx]

I am looking at a SP101 in 357 and will be carrying 357 mag 125 gr. bullet.I am staying with 125 and not 158 to reduce recoil a bit.

I carry a 2.25" barreled SP101 in .357 magnum. The factory grips have been replaced with a Hogue monogrip. If you're sensitive to recoil or muzzle blast, you're not going to like magnum loads in this or any other snubby. While mine doesn't bother me to shoot with magnums(which is what it stays loaded with and gets shot through it the most), few other people have found it tolerable to shoot--most had a terrible flinch by the time they finished the first cylinder. I will qualify that by saying that most of them haven't shot anything more powerful than a .38 special or 9mm beforehand.

If you REALLY want to carry magnums, I strongly suggest progressing through the various .38 special loadings beforehand.

 

[bestseller92]

125 grain magnum JHPs out of my 3" SP101 don't bother me at all.

 

[Glockman17366]

It depends on your recoil sensitivety...also, have you determined which gun you'll carry? And how you intend to carry?

I carry one of three handguns: Glock 19, Ruger SP101 .357 Magnum (3.06" barrel) and a Taurus 851 (lightweight shrouded hammer .38 Spl.)

Since Andy is asking about .357 in a small revolver, we ignore the Glock.

If you buy an airweight snubby, I'd suggest a .38 rated for +P ammo. You'll be carrying this revolver all day. Light weight revolvers really fit the bill for this type of carry. I most frequently carry this revolver in my pocket...very convenient. I normally shoot standard .38 rounds throught this one, but I don't find +P uncomfortable for a cylinder or two.
If you pocket or purse carry, a lightweight .38 is the way to go.

The Ruger is a great carry piece if you'll be carrying IWB or OWB. IMHO, it's too heavy for pocket or in a purse. Again, my opinion, .shooting 357 Magnum rounds aren't too bad and you do have the option of carrying with .38 standard or +P rounds.

So, Andy...I suggest you evaluate your entire mode of carry...then make your decision to go for a .38 or .357.

 

[bestseller92]

I disagree that the SP101 is too heavy for pocket carry.

 

[plexreticle]

I carry a S&W m66 .357 with a 2/5" barrell.

Pros:

It's a .357 mag

Good sights

It goes bang when you pull the trigger

Chicks dig it

Cons:

High flash and recoil even with SD ammo

It's loud as heck

It's heavy and bulky for a CCW

The good sights snag and shred up my cheap leather pancake holster.

Looking back, I would have got a M65 instead of the 66, other than that I like it.

 

[The_Shootist]

Practice

I honestly think that as time goes on, you get desensitized to recoil. Start with .38 spl wadcutters to +P then on to mild .357 loadings and up to the real headbanging stuff.

Couple of weekends ago, I realized I hadn't shot my 3" SP 101 in a while, much less run any .357 ammo through it. So I ran a box of Blazer 158gr JHP's through it.

Normally I hate shooting .357 of any flavour out of anything lighter than my 686+ but the Blazer surprised me. Very controllable and yeah, you knew you were shooting .357, but it wasn't intimidating. Accuracy was good, from ammo that on paper gives 1150 fps and 464 ft/lbs at the muzzle.

Of course I had just run 150 rounds through a new 642 I was trying to dial in. So maybe I was somewhat desensitized by that shooting. I just think the more you shoot, eventually the easier it is to handle .357.