Shooting a snub

[brewer12345]

So I tried out my new Taurus 85 ul today. At my range the pistol targets are fixed at 12.5 yards. With my lead bullet hand loads, accuracy was acceptable even with double action. Quick shots I could keep all 5 bullets on the paper. When I switched to commercial self defense ammo I had issues. Rem plus p 125 grains was pretty far left and quite inaccurate. Hornady ftx standard pressure hit so far to the left it was mostly off the paper.

Maybe this thing just likes lead 158 grainers? If so, what are my options in standard pressure commercial self defense ammo?

 

[fastbolt]

No way to guess without being able to shoot the particular snub. How experienced of a revolver shooter are you? How about been experienced with the smaller 5-shot snubs? Even some experienced revolver shooters of med/large revolvers find the smaller 5-shot snubs to be a bit harder to shoot.

In my handful of snubs which are rated for +P, the Rem Golden Sabre 125gr +P's are accurate enough to use for shooting at wooden clothespins at close range (out to 5yds), but so are the Speer GDHP 125gr & 135gr +P's, and the Win 130gr +P's (RA38B/PDX1).

I've got a couple of standard pressure 110gr JHP's (Fed & Win) that seem to be quite accurate in a couple of my J's, and which I save for a 37-2DAO I ordered which isn't rated for +P (according to someone at the factory, who looked it up and called over to Revolver Production for me, since I was calling as an armorer).

The standard pressure 130gr ball loads are a little less accurate, in some of my snubs, but some of the Win 158gr LRN/LSWC standard pressure loads have also been pretty accurate in some S&W J's, as have the Win & Rem 158gr LSWCHP/LHP +P's.

If you're right-handed, is the shorter trigger reach and DA pull of the Taurus snub causing you to pull the muzzle off to the left when the snub fires? Is the increased felt recoil of the +P loads causing you to have that last moment flinch (tightening of the grip, which may also be affecting your trigger finger's last bit of press)?

No way to really guess, though, without being able to watch you shoot, from both sides and a couple of angles (watching your hand & index finger during follow-through), and being able to shoot the gun using the same loads.

 

[brewer12345]

Interesting suggestions. I shoot quite a bit of 38 special out of a 357 security six with a 4 inch barrel, so revolver shooting isn't an issue. The snub is more challenging to shoot, but I do not expect great accuracy since this is effectively a short range self defense option (belly gun). When I had issues shooting the lighter jacketed bullets, I shot a couple cylinders seated with the gun on a rest and had similar results. So I think that it is probably an ammo thing rather than the nut behind the trigger.

I will have to hunt down a box or two of Chicago/fbi loads (158 grain hp swc) and try them.

 

[Shaky]

As far as a standard pressure lswchp buffalo bore and underwood are about it I think. If I'm not mistaken Remington has stopped making their 38+p altogether. Federal may still make the +p version, though I haven't seen any of those in a while either.

 

[brewer12345]

As far as a standard pressure lswchp buffalo bore and underwood are about it I think. If I'm not mistaken Remington has stopped making their 38+p altogether. Federal may still make the +p version, though I haven't seen any of those in a while either.

I will have to see if I can turn up the BB locally. They seem to generally have good stuff. I even ran across an online place selling the bullet BB uses (at a high price), but I would much prefer to use factory for CCW ammo. If that were not the case I would buy some of the bullets and work up a load.

 

[ATLDave]

Are you seeing the muzzle flash?

 

[brewer12345]

Are you seeing the muzzle flash?

Maybe once. I almost never see muzzle flash when I shoot.

 

[Cump]

Even with general revolver experience, even other snub experience, I wouldn't rule out something to do with grip or trigger pull (which shooting from a rest may not change).

Each one of my snubs shoots a little differently. And with my first snub I shot wadcutters great but 158s or +p ammo wide of target. Until I really got a feel for my grip and pull.

A snub, especially an airweight or ultralight is one of the tougher platforms to shoot, but they need not only be a belly gun.

It could be the gun, but I still think the solution could be familiarity and practice practice practice.

 

[brewer12345]

Practice is no doubt the answer. The weird thing is that 158 grain lead loads with close to max charges of hp38 powder for standard pressure shot just fine.

 

[ATLDave]

I suspect you're just flinching. That happens to me too with small guns and hotter loads.

 

[Slamfire]

My Taurus snubbies shot reasonably to point of aim with 158 grain bullets. Lighter bullets printed lower.

 

[Redfisher60]

I love shooting my 85

 

[USSR]

Practice is no doubt the answer.

+1. Handgun shooting is more difficult to master than either rifle or shotgun, and maintaining your proficiency requires regular practice.

Don

 

[Danoobie]

IMO, you are trying too hard, in the ammo department. See if you can get some wad-cutters
with a normal or cool powder load. You don't get enough out of a hot load to make a
difference. JMHO, YMMV, RNSTG.

 

[Jim NE]

There are a couple of commercially available standard pressure (or at least non +P) hollow point .38 rounds that I'm aware of, and probably a lot more I'm not aware of. One is a Hornady "custom" and another is a Magtech. Don't have model #'s. Maybe something like this could be an alternative to +P defense loads.

 

[brewer12345]

IMO, you are trying too hard, in the ammo department. See if you can get some wad-cutters
with a normal or cool powder load. You don't get enough out of a hot load to make a
difference. JMHO, YMMV, RNSTG.

Heh, I can load just about anything I want. I had some wadcutters, but I loaded them too hot. I spent a chunk f this evening loading some more with a considerably reduced powder charge.

 

[GooseGestapo]

A few things to consider...

Most .38 snubs are regulated to shoot poi/poa with the historical standard load of a 158gr RN at 855fps (6" barrel). From a 2"bbl, these run ~650fps.
A lighter bullet will shoot lower, approximately 6" at 15yds, with a 95gr bullet. Also, because of the difference in torque in the barrel due to rifling, the gun will twist less with a lighter bullet. This will result in approximately 3-5" at 15yds , usually to the left, with a S&W revolver.

Just stick with the 148gr wadcutters for practice and 158swc for carrying. It's a proven match.

 

[Shotgun Willy]

I had to change the grips on my 85, because it was almost uncontrollable with the tiny factory grips. Since I put on the Pachmayr Compacs, it's much more controllable.

 

[Hardtarget]

My only snub is a S&W mod 19. I have not shot it enough to know if I really can shoot it or not. Having read the comments here I have some good direction for learning this gun. My other revolvers have either 4"or 6" barrels, so learning the snub will be...different.

Mark

 

[Water-Man]

These shoot well in my snub.http://www.georgia-arms.com/38-special-158gr-lead-semi-wadcutter-hollow-point-p/

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

I've had excellent luck with the Buffalo Bore LSWCHPs in a variety of .38s. They are made for short-barreled guns and are standard pressure but give +P velocities.

 

[USSR]

My only snub is a S&W mod 19. I have not shot it enough to know if I really can shoot it or not. Having read the comments here I have some good direction for learning this gun. My other revolvers have either 4"or 6" barrels, so learning the snub will be...different.

Mark

Mark,

That's what my snub is. Practice, practice, practice! If you don't reload, learn to. It's really the only way you can afford to practice enough to master the skill and maintain it. Suggest .38 Special +P loads rather than .357 Magnum.

Don

 

[Rexster]

My only snub is a S&W mod 19. I have not shot it enough to know if I really can shoot it or not. Having read the comments here I have some good direction for learning this gun. My other revolvers have either 4"or 6" barrels, so learning the snub will be...different.

Mark

A 2.5" Model 19 is still a K-Frame revolver, so while it will be "different," you are still grasping a medium-frame revolver, with a medium-length distance from backstrap to trigger face. The differences are weight distribution, and sight radius, plus, if your larger revolvers have squared-off grip frames, you will be holding a rounded-off grip frame. The most important factors will be the same.

 

[Blkhrt13]

Try different grips and maybe add a Tyler t if you can find one that fits. Granted I'm running an antiquated colt but the grip is full length and the T helps with control considerably.

 

[maxxhavoc]

So I tried out my new Taurus 85 ul today. At my range the pistol targets are fixed at 12.5 yards. With my lead bullet hand loads, accuracy was acceptable even with double action. Quick shots I could keep all 5 bullets on the paper. When I switched to commercial self defense ammo I had issues. Rem plus p 125 grains was pretty far left and quite inaccurate. Hornady ftx standard pressure hit so far to the left it was mostly off the paper.

I agree with others that it may be a flinching issue, or a change in grip anticipating recoil. Ammo changes usually go straight up and down. Load a piece of fired brass in 2 of the cylinders and the +P stuff in the others. Spin it so you don't know what is next, and try again. Concentrate on the sights. If you are flinching, you will notice. A dryfire shot should still be on the bullseye.

Alternatively, mix +Ps and your pet loads in the same cylinder, just to confuse your brain a bit. See if they still shoot left when you don't know they are coming.