Shooting out tires
- Thread starter Dr. Sandman
- Start date
- Status
I say we nuke the car from orbit. It is the only way to be sure
Last edited:
km101
Member
Any agency that I have worked for required that your life must be endangered before you can fire your weapon. If my life is in danger, I am not going to be shooting at a tire! And the possibility of over penetration or ricochet would prevent me from shooting at a tire in that circumstance.
If a tire is the only target that you have, you are better off not firing!
Having said that, the few tires that I have shot to test penetration showed little resistance to hardball or jacketed rounds in .357 mag or .45 acp calibers.
If a tire is the only target that you have, you are better off not firing!
Having said that, the few tires that I have shot to test penetration showed little resistance to hardball or jacketed rounds in .357 mag or .45 acp calibers.
lemaymiami
Member
A friend and co-worker actually did that "shoot out the tires" thing in a vehicle pursuit... NO if did not work out very well, but YES the driver did stop the vehicle... The single gunshot at very close quarters (right beside the fleeing vehicle), passenger officer fired into the driver side front tire... scared the driver enough that she did stop the car. Thirty minutes later the tire finally was flat....
Here's the story... Stolen vehicle and female driver taking suicidal risks while fleeing a single police car with two officers aboard led the shooting officer to believe that stopping that car before it hit an upcoming major intersection (heavily built up suburban area just north of Miami) during evening rush hour was an imperative. They pulled up alongside the stolen car and the officer discharged a single shot from with a .45 long Colt revolver into the side of the tire. No visible results to the tire -but it scared the female so badly that she quickly stopped the car. No injuries to anyone and the tire took almost thirty minutes to go flat from a center sidewall impact at fifty mph...
The shooting officer (a sergeant at the time) went on to have a fine career in police work, culminated by a ten year position as Chief of a medium sized department in Palm Beach county.... On that occasion, though, he did get a written reprimand for an out of policy firearms discharge (no matter what the circumstances - our rules were very clear cut and prohibited shooting at an occupied vehicle unless your were protecting your life). Those same rules also prohibited officers from jumping in front of a car, creating the need to fire, when it would not have existed otherwise...
Shooting out the tires... great in movies - not so good in real life.
Here's the story... Stolen vehicle and female driver taking suicidal risks while fleeing a single police car with two officers aboard led the shooting officer to believe that stopping that car before it hit an upcoming major intersection (heavily built up suburban area just north of Miami) during evening rush hour was an imperative. They pulled up alongside the stolen car and the officer discharged a single shot from with a .45 long Colt revolver into the side of the tire. No visible results to the tire -but it scared the female so badly that she quickly stopped the car. No injuries to anyone and the tire took almost thirty minutes to go flat from a center sidewall impact at fifty mph...
The shooting officer (a sergeant at the time) went on to have a fine career in police work, culminated by a ten year position as Chief of a medium sized department in Palm Beach county.... On that occasion, though, he did get a written reprimand for an out of policy firearms discharge (no matter what the circumstances - our rules were very clear cut and prohibited shooting at an occupied vehicle unless your were protecting your life). Those same rules also prohibited officers from jumping in front of a car, creating the need to fire, when it would not have existed otherwise...
Shooting out the tires... great in movies - not so good in real life.
I shot at the tire of a car that rammed me once. Missed. I blamed it on the left hand rifling in those old Colt Troopers. It did, however, scare the bejabbers out of the guy and when he crashed he got out of the car crying and begging me not to kill him.
PaulKersey3
Member
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2011
- Messages
- 107
I remember reading somewhere the German police and spec ops started using a round developed for blowing tires. This was in the immediate years after Munich. I believe it was Geco who manufactured them along with Dynamit-Nobel. The rounds utilized a sort of "cookie cutter" approach which tore large holes on thick rubber. Naturally they were quite effective against organic targets as well. The BAT (Blitz Action Trauma) rounds that Geco made in the 80s used similar properties with a solid brass or copper projectile and that weird nose cap over the HP cavity. This was supposed to make them feed like FMJ
The odds of accomplishing the intended result - stopping the car - aren't good.
Seeing the number of vehicles still driving around after hitting spike strips points it out even more. The driver may not be able to go fast, but he's still able to go.
The potential marketing effort for non-pneumatic tires over the last 30 years is finally catching up - at which point the issue will be moot: http://www.core77.com/blog/transpor...l_polaris_roll_over_the_competition_25948.asp
Lots of other makers have been looking at them for years. With rims approaching 22" as standard, the tech to make a low profile tires ride nicely transfers to non-pneumatic very easily.
Seeing the number of vehicles still driving around after hitting spike strips points it out even more. The driver may not be able to go fast, but he's still able to go.
The potential marketing effort for non-pneumatic tires over the last 30 years is finally catching up - at which point the issue will be moot: http://www.core77.com/blog/transpor...l_polaris_roll_over_the_competition_25948.asp
Lots of other makers have been looking at them for years. With rims approaching 22" as standard, the tech to make a low profile tires ride nicely transfers to non-pneumatic very easily.
horsinaround930
Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2013
- Messages
- 4
A guy I served with got voluntold to work security and they are instructed not to ever fire at a car due to killing the driver, intentionally or not could result in a run away car.
hueytaxi
Member
After many years without a flat, I have had two within the last month. In both cases, the sidewall was stiff enough to allow normal highway driving and they way I discovered I had a flat was torque steer decelerating or accelerating.
I know we've been talking about this awhile now, but I'm sticking by the "Firing shots at or in to a vehicle is a bad idea."
A deputy friend of mine in Kansas earlier this year was involved in a pursuit - a lady in an SUV took off from a traffic stop and wasn't stopping.
She tried cutting through a farm field to evade police, my friend followed her in to the field in his truck. Received authorization on the radio to execute a pit maneuver, which he did.
Her SUV flipped, rolled several times in the field. The woman wasn't injured but as my deputy friend approached the vehicle, his gut sank; because he could see an infant car-seat sticking out from under the SUV that rolled.
Fortunately there was no child in it. But if there had been... child would have been killed.
Which goes back to shooting at a fleeing suspect in a vehicle (or at the vehicle itself).
You don't know if they have someone tied up in the trunk, or children in the back seats, etc.
It's just not a good idea because you violate that whole "know your target, and what is beyond" safety rule about sending metal projectiles downrange.
A deputy friend of mine in Kansas earlier this year was involved in a pursuit - a lady in an SUV took off from a traffic stop and wasn't stopping.
She tried cutting through a farm field to evade police, my friend followed her in to the field in his truck. Received authorization on the radio to execute a pit maneuver, which he did.
Her SUV flipped, rolled several times in the field. The woman wasn't injured but as my deputy friend approached the vehicle, his gut sank; because he could see an infant car-seat sticking out from under the SUV that rolled.
Fortunately there was no child in it. But if there had been... child would have been killed.
Which goes back to shooting at a fleeing suspect in a vehicle (or at the vehicle itself).
You don't know if they have someone tied up in the trunk, or children in the back seats, etc.
It's just not a good idea because you violate that whole "know your target, and what is beyond" safety rule about sending metal projectiles downrange.
There's no reason to shoot at a fleeing vehicle unless the person inside is intent on killing people (I don't mean killing people accidentally while running from the police). We're talking imminent danger...active shooter...active "run people down or shoot people because I didn't take my meds". We can easily obtain video evidence of crimes, we can easily obtain video evidence of drivers fleeing from crimes or fleeing from traffic stops. We have the technology to run their license plate and know who they are and where they live. We are even beyond that point now with new technology.
If you're going to shoot, shoot to stop the imminent threat period. If they aren't a threat....don't chase them until they crash into a car and kill a family because they didn't want to get a ticket for a broken tail light. Far too many people get killed because of chases and shootings that really didn't need to happen in the first place.
Sure it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback but at the same time how you can you brag about being able to catch people for murder from one freaking fiber on a 1/16th inch piece of duct tape that has been floating in a river for a year....or one partial finger print taken from a glass in 1972 but yet you have to chase the guy that stole a 12 pack from 7-11 at 120mph on the interstate until he crashes and wipes out someone's family. If you're that good at finding out who has committed the crime....go and snag him when he's an easy target. That would be legit bragging rights. We could have snagged David Koresh while he was gassing up at the local station but no....we're looking for the fight as if it's part of the game. There has to be a balance.
If you're going to shoot, shoot to stop the imminent threat period. If they aren't a threat....don't chase them until they crash into a car and kill a family because they didn't want to get a ticket for a broken tail light. Far too many people get killed because of chases and shootings that really didn't need to happen in the first place.
Sure it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback but at the same time how you can you brag about being able to catch people for murder from one freaking fiber on a 1/16th inch piece of duct tape that has been floating in a river for a year....or one partial finger print taken from a glass in 1972 but yet you have to chase the guy that stole a 12 pack from 7-11 at 120mph on the interstate until he crashes and wipes out someone's family. If you're that good at finding out who has committed the crime....go and snag him when he's an easy target. That would be legit bragging rights. We could have snagged David Koresh while he was gassing up at the local station but no....we're looking for the fight as if it's part of the game. There has to be a balance.
My friend's dad had to face this tactical problem once when some bank robbers were known to be driving down the main street after robbing a bank in the next town. He just shot out the radiator with a 12 ga. since "he didn't want to hurt anyone" and it worked pretty well.
we are not amused
Member
I agree that shooting at tires on a moving vehicle is an extremely bad idea, because of the difficulty of actually hitting the tire, and the possibility of stray bullets hitting an innocent bystander.
However the people who claim that the steel or Kevlar belts in tires will stop bullets have obviously never shot a tire!
From experience, anything bigger than a .22 short, will penetrate the rubber, (not bounce off) and only the thickest rubber tires would stop even a .22 long rifle bullet (Commercial truck and tractor tires can have over an inch of hard rubber in the tread of the tire).
I never had a failure to penetrate using .223 caliber bullets, .38 special, or 9mm. Both the 9mm and .223 bullets were hollow points.
The reason I did the test using old tires that were laying around the farm, was an earlier discussion involving the ability of steel belts or Kevlar to stop or ricochet bullets. The tires I used were a variety of pickup truck tires, car tires, heavy equipment tires, and large commercial truck tires. Massive fail on both counts. At the time, I didn't have any .22 short rifle ammunition and couldn't test it, and saw no point in testing larger rifle rounds than the .223/5.56. considering how they easily penetrated.
While tires can be "bullet proofed", this usually involves filling them with a foam rubber compound and/or a liquid sealant, and providing some type of "run flat" capability, not Kevlar or steel belts!
Still every time the subject of tires and shooting comes up, some brings up the hoary old myth about "steel belts" causing ricochets!
However the people who claim that the steel or Kevlar belts in tires will stop bullets have obviously never shot a tire!
From experience, anything bigger than a .22 short, will penetrate the rubber, (not bounce off) and only the thickest rubber tires would stop even a .22 long rifle bullet (Commercial truck and tractor tires can have over an inch of hard rubber in the tread of the tire).
I never had a failure to penetrate using .223 caliber bullets, .38 special, or 9mm. Both the 9mm and .223 bullets were hollow points.
The reason I did the test using old tires that were laying around the farm, was an earlier discussion involving the ability of steel belts or Kevlar to stop or ricochet bullets. The tires I used were a variety of pickup truck tires, car tires, heavy equipment tires, and large commercial truck tires. Massive fail on both counts. At the time, I didn't have any .22 short rifle ammunition and couldn't test it, and saw no point in testing larger rifle rounds than the .223/5.56. considering how they easily penetrated.
While tires can be "bullet proofed", this usually involves filling them with a foam rubber compound and/or a liquid sealant, and providing some type of "run flat" capability, not Kevlar or steel belts!
Still every time the subject of tires and shooting comes up, some brings up the hoary old myth about "steel belts" causing ricochets!
AABEN
Member
If with in 12 feet and the car moving slow YES. The lady that was at the white house should had her tires shoot out when all the law was beside her car!
- Status
Similar threads
