Shooting pistol w/ wrist rotated to 11o'clock position?

[MatthewVanitas]

Greetings,
Ran the Search, got threads of cheap jokes, but will endeavor to ask anyway.

In an attempt to avoid overplayed, tired-out gangsta jokes, I'll summarize them here briefly so that anyone making said jokes obviously didn't read the first post in the thread: "foo', break yo'self!", Birdman Sideways Glock Sights, "dis is my gat", etc. ad infinitum ad nauseum.

Seriously, I was reading a post stating that it's easier to rack a pistol with the slide tilted slightly to one's weak side, as that's a stronger hand position than the straight up-and-down used for most shooting. While dry firing my new RAMI (thanks to the THR Sales Board and clark98ut), I noted that it does feel pretty comfortable to cock one's wrist ever so slightly, so the gun running 11-5 vice 12-6, seen from the shooter's perspective. Not the full-on 9-3 seen in 'hood movies, but just a slight left tilt in my right paw.

I read an old Gun Digest issue that covered some of these points, which also mentioned that some known-distance rifle shooters deliberately cant their scopes (using a level IIRC to maintain a constant cant), because their body is more stable in that slight cant.

So, has anyone had any success with this position, or has grave warnings aside from the fact that sight adjustments will be tricky with windage being 90% a horizontal adjustment and 10% an elevation adjustment, etc. ?

I was very, very pleasantly surprised at the lack of worn-out, beaten-dead-horse jokes on recent threads about pearlite grips. Hopefully we can maintain this trend. Most of those jokes were funny the 1st through 36th retelling, but have worn stale over the last decade or so.

To all those with good insights on shooting hand position, much appreciated as always.

-MV

 

[Tigerseye]

I am a master class NRA bullseye competitor, and hold the gun in the 12/6 (straight up) position.

Two other master class shooters I know hold their guns at 11/5 or 10/4. They do it with both .22LR and .45ACP pistols. They do not have any problems with feeding or with extraction/ejection of spent cases.

I've tried it, but maybe I'm too old to learn new tricks.

Tigerseye

 

[RyanM]

The Center Axis Relock system uses the gun canted pretty far in the extended position, ostensibly for recoil control. I think a certain amount of cant aligns the bones of the wrist and forearm into a stronger position. Much like vertical punches vs. horizontal punches. IIRC, in bareknuckle boxing, it's a horizontal punch for body blows, and vertical for face strikes.

It does seem logical that a certain relative position of the radius and ulna may make for a stronger wrist, or just be more comfortable.

 

[Gun Wielding Maniac]

When firing the pistol one handed, I was taught to rotate my wrist to the 11 O'clock. Cant say it really improved my stability all that much, if at all. Then again, I dont shoot one handed very much.

 

[lycanthrope]

Rotating to 11 O'Clock helps my one handed shooting. With both hands I shoot at 12.

Try it and see what works for you.

 

[HSMITH]

Ditto Lycanthrope.

 

[benEzra]

I've seen an 11 o'clock style used in one-handed shooting, and I think Ayoob's edition of Combat Handgunnery explicitly discussed that. People who are cross-dominant (right handed, left-eyed) sometimes use an 11 o'clock angle to put the sights in front of their dominant eye. And of course a lot of people recommend using a bit of cant when shooting around cover, so that your arms and torso are less exposed.

I personally hold the gun at 12 o'clock for 2-handed shooting, but I can see how an 11 o'clock style might work better for some people, and for everybody in some circumstances.

 

[Jubei]

Every once-in-awhile I like to shoot with my gun at the 7o'clock position. It's really uncomfortable and innaccurate as hell, and everyone around you at the range thinks that I'm an idiot, but it is unique.

Jubei

 

[.40-.45]

I shoot strong hand only with about a 5-10 degree cant to my weak side


I will also say that I learned it from some of the local LEO s that run our IDPA matches

I shoot better that way

lets not confuse this with dumb ass gangsta shooting

this is a slight tilt in to control the weapon

my .02

 

[1KPerDay]

People who are cross-dominant (right handed, left-eyed) sometimes use an 11 o'clock angle to put the sights in front of their dominant eye.

That's the only time I've heard of the virtues of this practice being extolled, as well. I'm right-handed and left-eye-dominant, but I find a modified weaver brings the sights in line nicely without having to tilt the pistol. For me.

I don't often shoot one-handed, either.

I do shoot long guns lefty, though.

 

[.40-.45]

I don't often shoot one-handed, either.

I had never practiced one handed until I started shooting in IDPA matches and one course of fire seems to always be one handed or sometimes weak hand.

I can tell you that it takes practice, but I can see where it would be important to know you can do it

 

[Standing Wolf]

I am a master class NRA bullseye competitor, and hold the gun in the 12/6 (straight up) position.
Two other master class shooters I know hold their guns at 11/5 or 10/4. They do it with both .22LR and .45ACP pistols. They do not have any problems with feeding or with extraction/ejection of spent cases.

I shoot in the master class by default: I resumed shooting competitive a couple years ago, and haven't yet worked my way down a notch.

The right elbow trouble I've had the past six months has all but necessitated about a 5° counter-clockwise cant. I've tried to "correct" it, but tipping the gun slightly alleviates some of the pain, and doesn't seem to hurt my accuracy. It's good to learn I'm not the only shooter who's a little off top dead center.

 

[Mute]

For one handed shooting I do find that canting the gun as indicated puts my arm in a more natural position and offsets the tendency for the gun to want to recoil up and to the right. This is with the 1911. With other, handguns (those not in .45 ACP), I don't really notice much difference.

 

[tom barthel]

proper hold

PRACTICE. If you can hit the mark standing on your head, go for it. Most people use a verticle hold(12 oclock 6 oclock) hold. I can and often do miss from any position. Practice is the key. If you are unable to hold your gun one way, hold it another way. More power to you.

 

[dav]

I'm a firm believer in the 'find the gun that fits you' school of thought.

That is. close your eyes, point your handgun at the target. Open your eyes. If the sights are aligned with the bullseye, you've found your gun.

And, if you notice that while you were not paying attention to holding the gun you happened to tilt it slightly, then you have also found the most 'natural' way for you to hold when firing.

If it is more comfortable and points naturally, you will shoot it better.

That, and lots of practice, and you might get as good as me and hit your target (well, most of the time... ok, does close count?)

 

[rocky]

If it works better for ya. The only real drawback would be sight adjustmnet , If you have adjustable sights. But I don't see it as that much of a drawback if you shoot better with a cant to the gun.

 

[.40-.45]

next time your out shooting try (for a right handed shooter) a slight tilt to the left and see if its not a more comfortable shooting style

I have no plans on shooting a would be attacker with only one hand but then again i have no plans on shooting a would be attacker

the boy scouts say be prepared

That is my plan

 

[1911Tuner]

11:00 Cant

It works. Try this. Not trying to point to a tiny spot at a great distance, but in a nonchalant way...like you're pointing to a house as you drive by with your family, point at something across the room.(Say: Look-a-there! if it helps set the mood) Notice the angle of your hand relative to your wrist.

Now, do it again with a pistol in your hand.
Unless I miss my guess, it's gonna be canted at about 11:00.

Sure, the zeroed POA/POI won't be the same...but at 15 feet it ain't gonna make a helluva lotta difference...and it's fast.

 

[Jim Watson]

My IDPA coach taught us to shoot straight up with both hands or strong hand, but to cant a bit with the weak hand You are giving up a little accuracy on a close target for better recoil control with the off hand. So I shoot 12:00 with the right hand and 1:00 with the left.

 

[stoky]

An instructor at Gunsite recommended a slight cant for one handed shooting. In his words "not quite a full yo, just turn it inward until you feel it lock." It feels more solid to me.

 

[.40-.45]

An instructor at Gunsite recommended a slight cant for one handed shooting. In his words "not quite a full yo, just turn it inward until you feel it lock." It feels more solid to me.

that's what I 'm talking about

 

[BHPshooter]

When shooting left-handed I tilt the gun to the 1:00 position -- that way it is much more comfortable, and it naturally aligns with my shooting eye.

There's nothing wrong with that at all.

Wes

 

[albanian]

I have been trying to practice one handed more and more since about 5 years ago. I started to think that it was probably more likely that if I ever needed to shoot someone, I may only have one hand to hold the pistol with. I may be holding something that I don't want to drop (car keys to get out of the area that bad guys are in or something else). I can see many situations where I might only have one hand free. I may be fending off the attacker with one hand, I may even be trying to drive away, ect. The point is, I found that practicing with one hand made sense for me.

When I started to practice one handed, I found that in order to control the gun better in rapid fire, a slight cant did help me keep most of my shots on paper. I didn't think about it at the time, I just noticed that I was naturally doing it with certain guns.

When I shoot my S&W 642 one handed rapid fire, I cant my hand to give my wrist and arm more strength to brace for recoil. With the snubby, you shoot it different than most other guns. You don't aim along the sights and slowly squeeze the trigger like on a 1911. What I do at least is, I grip it very firm, more firm than I grip any other pistol. I then point it at eye level but not using the sights at my target. I know from practice where my shots are going to land. I then start pulling the trigger as fast as I can while really pushing the gun towards the target and slightly down to tame recoil. It is hard to explain but it works. I cant the gun because I have found that it doesn't affect my accuracy at all and I have more power and control.

I do it with other guns but only one handed. I do it rapid fire one handed and slow fire sometimes but it depends on the gun and the caliber. If it is a Ruger MKII, I probably won't do it. If it is a Glock, I will. It is one of those things that you just have to try out and see if it feels better.

I have tried a lot of different shooting styles and tricks and I what I have learned is that there is not a "correct" way to shoot. There are many right ways to do the same task. I have picked up some tips that helped and tried some tips that did me no good at all. I just ignore what doesn't work and use what does. You have to have the ability to go against the grain in order to find what works for you.