HeavyDuty
Member
He probably figured that as gun enthusiast living in NJ, you *must* want to blow your brains out!
Shooting range turned me away - said i'm a suicide risk!
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Cannonball888
Member
I believe WA has the highest suicide rate per capita.
357WheelGun
Member
My first thought was Wade's too.
As others have said, there have been some issues there with people renting a gun to commit suicide, so Wade's instituted this policy on their own. There was no legal pressure, and it's not a Seattle law. From their perspective it's more about not wanting the negative headlines and not wanting to have to shut down the range for a couple days to clean up and let police process the scene, etc, which I can understand.
The other people you saw being allowed to go in alone without their own firearm were certainly members. The assumption being that a person who wants to commit suicide isn't going to pony up the $300+ annual fee to become a member.
Seattle in general has a higher-than-average suicide rate, especially in the winter. In fact, the leading cause of injury death in King County (the county in which Seattle resides) was suicide in 2001. I wasn't able to find numbers for other years, but I would imagine that suicide hovers in the top 3 based on my experience. It makes sense to me that the Bellevue Gun Range (which is actually a separate business entity from Wade's Gun Shop) would want to limit their potential liability.
As others have said, there have been some issues there with people renting a gun to commit suicide, so Wade's instituted this policy on their own. There was no legal pressure, and it's not a Seattle law. From their perspective it's more about not wanting the negative headlines and not wanting to have to shut down the range for a couple days to clean up and let police process the scene, etc, which I can understand.
The other people you saw being allowed to go in alone without their own firearm were certainly members. The assumption being that a person who wants to commit suicide isn't going to pony up the $300+ annual fee to become a member.
Seattle in general has a higher-than-average suicide rate, especially in the winter. In fact, the leading cause of injury death in King County (the county in which Seattle resides) was suicide in 2001. I wasn't able to find numbers for other years, but I would imagine that suicide hovers in the top 3 based on my experience. It makes sense to me that the Bellevue Gun Range (which is actually a separate business entity from Wade's Gun Shop) would want to limit their potential liability.
357WheelGun
Member
As a state, WA ranks 21st in suicide rate. The rate for WA state hovers around 13 suicides per 100,000 people. States like Alaska, Montana, and Nevada hover around 20 per 100,000.
Seattle as a city, however, is difficult to find data for. King County as a whole shows an overall suicide rate about on par with the national average, but that's a much larger area than just the city.
eflatminor
Member
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Here in LA...
There is an indoor range that rents guns and they will also restrict unaccompanied people from renting due to folks eating a bullet on their range. They simply don't want to have to clean it up.
There is an indoor range that rents guns and they will also restrict unaccompanied people from renting due to folks eating a bullet on their range. They simply don't want to have to clean it up.
Hk91-762mm
Member
Would YOU want to mop up the mess?
We Had a young guy walk into a gun and sporting goods store where they sell the used beater guns on a floor rack so you can freely look at them -He managed to get a shotgun shell when no one was looking and got off between a bunch of hunting coats and stuck the shotty under his chin--Im told it made a BIG mess My buddie was a cop on the scene and I asked whos gona clean that up -Told me there is actually a co. that does this work all the time .
===>States like Alaska, Montana, and Nevada hover around 20 per 100,000.
?????? Why would someone living in such a great place want to off themselves --Go figure! Standing on top of a mountain in Montana should cure anyones Blues ?
We Had a young guy walk into a gun and sporting goods store where they sell the used beater guns on a floor rack so you can freely look at them -He managed to get a shotgun shell when no one was looking and got off between a bunch of hunting coats and stuck the shotty under his chin--Im told it made a BIG mess My buddie was a cop on the scene and I asked whos gona clean that up -Told me there is actually a co. that does this work all the time .
===>States like Alaska, Montana, and Nevada hover around 20 per 100,000.
?????? Why would someone living in such a great place want to off themselves --Go figure! Standing on top of a mountain in Montana should cure anyones Blues ?
It's just a policy aimed at addressing a serious problem. The policy is certainly imperfect with regard to many situations. You can pick at it here. Pick at it there. But it has the benefits of being clear and implementable. Low transaction costs. It'd be hard to develop a truly better policy than the one being used.
Just one of those things. Best thing is just to understand it and move on.
Perhaps one way to accept the situation more easily is to realize that the gun shop is not really saying that "You are a suicide risk." They're really saying, "You are being placed into a category that is considered to be a suicide risk category. We don't provide services to that category." It's not an individual thing. It's a category thing.
Just one of those things. Best thing is just to understand it and move on.
Perhaps one way to accept the situation more easily is to realize that the gun shop is not really saying that "You are a suicide risk." They're really saying, "You are being placed into a category that is considered to be a suicide risk category. We don't provide services to that category." It's not an individual thing. It's a category thing.
LeonCarr
Member
How did he know you were a suicide risk?
Do you now have to have a PhD in Psychology or MD in Psychiatry to work the counter at a gun range?
It is silly to have guns available for rent and not rent them out
.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Do you now have to have a PhD in Psychology or MD in Psychiatry to work the counter at a gun range?
It is silly to have guns available for rent and not rent them out
.Just my .02,
LeonCarr
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I think it's silly that they're severely inconveniencing their clients to try to prevent something that cannot be predicted. If someone wants to commit suicide, he isn't hurting anyone else. Suicide is a wrong thing to do, but it's nothing that a gun shop has as a responsibility to prevent.
It's the same mentality as the anti's wanting to pass gun laws that severely inconvenience gun owners in the hope that it may prevent crime. It of course doesn't and we're left paying the price.
Here in Illinois (I know it's not as bad as some states), I have to make 2 trips to the gun store (20-25 minutes away) to purchase any firearm. One to fill out the paperwork, and the other because of a waiting period on firearms purchases. I really wonder if the waiting period has done a darn thing to lower crime rates. If it hasn't, wouldn't it make sense to get rid of that dumb law?
It's the same mentality as the anti's wanting to pass gun laws that severely inconvenience gun owners in the hope that it may prevent crime. It of course doesn't and we're left paying the price.
Here in Illinois (I know it's not as bad as some states), I have to make 2 trips to the gun store (20-25 minutes away) to purchase any firearm. One to fill out the paperwork, and the other because of a waiting period on firearms purchases. I really wonder if the waiting period has done a darn thing to lower crime rates. If it hasn't, wouldn't it make sense to get rid of that dumb law?
That is obviously incorrect.
The management most certainly has a responsibility to the ownership of the shop to prevent or minimize any exceptional event that a) incurs high operating costs, and b) is avoidable.
Let the gun ranges run their businesses. They have an obvious motivation to serve as many people in their target market as possible.
SSN Vet
Member
The guy at the counter is bright enough to know that if he doesn't follow the owners policy he's going to be out of a job.
The owner is tired of having his shop shut donw by police investigators, losing a days revenue every time. He's probably also tired of squee-geeing blood and brains off of his floor.
Needless to say the risk of a lawsuit, because it's "obviously the guns fault" and he supplied the gun.
My hunch is that all the gun range suicides have been by:
1. men
2. who come alone
3. do not bring their own firearm
4. who rent a hand gun.
pretty easy to write a policy that takes care of that.
I'm always amazed how so many people who post on gun boards, ardently defending their firearms rights are so quick to advocate using the very same black robe mafia the libs use to oppose gun rights to try to strip private property owners of their rights.
Dravur
Member
Perhaps..
you shouldn't have come in crying and wearing that "Dr Kevorkian for President" pin....
That is a strange rule. Ive never actually rented a gun at a range and never even conceived of them worrying about suicide risk, but I guess it does happen.
Was there anyone else at the conference who might have come along to vouch for you?
Ok, then you get to come by with the Squeegee and the bleach and you get to pay the range for downtime. Thanks for volunteering.
you shouldn't have come in crying and wearing that "Dr Kevorkian for President" pin....
That is a strange rule. Ive never actually rented a gun at a range and never even conceived of them worrying about suicide risk, but I guess it does happen.
Was there anyone else at the conference who might have come along to vouch for you?
Ok, then you get to come by with the Squeegee and the bleach and you get to pay the range for downtime. Thanks for volunteering.
Halo
Member
I fully understand the range policy. But I can also see how a person unfamiliar with its purpose might be offended by the way the guy behind the counter so bluntly put it. Tact and diplomacy are encountered but seldom in gun shops.
An indoor range near here has had at least 3 suicides, and I believe this is now their policy as well. I think one of them was a woman, so it's not just men doing this. But obviously anyone who has their own gun would not have to come to a public shooting range to commit suicide, so it's sensible for the store to not rent out pistols to anyone who doesn't have their own gun.
An indoor range near here has had at least 3 suicides, and I believe this is now their policy as well. I think one of them was a woman, so it's not just men doing this. But obviously anyone who has their own gun would not have to come to a public shooting range to commit suicide, so it's sensible for the store to not rent out pistols to anyone who doesn't have their own gun.
Gunnerpalace
Member
Las Vegas,
Gambling,
It does not surprise me that would be high on the list,
But Montana.
xjchief
Member
Sorry to sound cold but they're thinking that their range won't be closed while the police investigate the suicide, they won't have a huge mess on their hands, they won't have their rental gun impounded, and their insurance won't skyrocket out into the stratosphere. Those are just the economic problems not even delving into the emotional stress of having handed someone a gun to blow their brains out.
aerod1
Member
Did you tell him you were from New Jersey. He must have figure that any freedom loving gun owner from New Jersey must be a risk!
Just kidding
Just kidding
357WheelGun
Member
Not hurting anyone else by committing suicide at the range?
What about the other people in the range at the time who then have to deal with being questioned during the police investigation and otherwise inconvenienced? What about the range workers who are stuck having to deal with potentially hysterical customers? What about the range owner who is forced to shut down his range at least for the rest of they day, and probably for some of the next day too, losing the profit during that time? What about the negative press that will definitely be focused on the gun range?
The range owner doesn't give a damn about preventing suicide. What he's preventing is having to shut down his livelihood and lose money for a day or two, as well as preventing the inconvenience of having to deal with a police investigation, having his property impounded during the investigation, and the resultant insurance and civil lawsuit risks.
If someone wants to commit suicide on his own property, that's none of my business. But as soon as he tries to commit suicide using a weapon that I own, on property that I own, the result of which will impede my livelihood, it becomes my business and you can be damn sure that I'd try to prevent it too.
KBintheSLC
Member
If I had to live near all those Seattle hippies, I'd blow my brains out too.
Tom Servo
Member
Three out of four.
Our range had a suicide before I worked there. A woman came in, rented a pistol and bought some ammo. She fired 49 rounds, then turned the gun on herself for round 50.
She'd been a semi-famous local photographer with a well-documented history of psychological problems. It made the papers, and the store was mentioned by name. Several articles tried to imart some sort of responsibility on the store and the employees for "letting this happen."
Then there was clean-up.
That was years ago, and we haven't had any since, but I can see why some places have such policies. You just can't do an on-the-spot psych evaluation on everyone that walks in.
It's most often not the "pro-gun" crowd doing this, but people who normally don't own guns by choice.
A despondent new-agey woman dumped by her lady partner did it at my old range a few years back (leaving her dog waiting in the car). I highly doubt she was ever a "pro-gun" person (but obviously was a completely self-absorbed one).
Gun ranges have every right to have such a policy.
1. Would you want to clean up the blood from your walls, ceilings, and floors?
2. Would you like to have the police shut down your range?
3. Would you want your customers to see that?
4. Would you want to lose that rental gun to the police for an unknown period of time?
5. Would you want to clean that rental gun of blood, brains, and whatever gore is on it?
One of my local ranges had a suicide. A guy walked in, rented a gun and bought a box of ammo. He fired every round in the box except the last one. The last one was put in his skull. Yeah, they are going to do it one way or another if they're committed, but not with my gun and not on my property.
1. Would you want to clean up the blood from your walls, ceilings, and floors?
2. Would you like to have the police shut down your range?
3. Would you want your customers to see that?
4. Would you want to lose that rental gun to the police for an unknown period of time?
5. Would you want to clean that rental gun of blood, brains, and whatever gore is on it?
One of my local ranges had a suicide. A guy walked in, rented a gun and bought a box of ammo. He fired every round in the box except the last one. The last one was put in his skull. Yeah, they are going to do it one way or another if they're committed, but not with my gun and not on my property.
surfinguru
Member
Had the same thing happen to me here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=109441&highlight=markley's
After it was explained to me by others on Calguns and reading this thread, I can understand the liability that the ranges have.
After it was explained to me by others on Calguns and reading this thread, I can understand the liability that the ranges have.
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