Shot loads on the 1858

[tra27]

Hey,

I know there's been a lot of topics about this topic and i've read them all. I really didn't found a lot of info on exact loads which would create good patterns. Of course rifling will ruin it on longer distances, but i'm talkin about max distance of 10 feet. I was experimenting a bit and found that using 15 grains of FFFg powder and a home made lubed wad on top, will give you space to fill it up almost 30 grains of volume of no. 9 leadshots. Then top it of with another wad. Should also keep in place quite nicely, because the wad is in the .47 diameter range.

I was wondering how much effect does the powder charge have on such a short distance? 10 gr would give you more lead shot and 20gr less.. I haven't yet shot these loads, but will get to that eventually.

Edit: I actually noticed that oversized milk carton wad really doesn't stay in place on top of the load. I only have 11mm and 12mm hole punches, propably would need it to be 11,5mm to be fitting nicely to the chamber.

 

[BCRider]

The stuff you're trying to kill at those distances with this load are small and don't take a whole lot of power. I'd say if you can put the shot through a small size plastic bottle of water that it should be enough to deal with the critters that bother you.

The question is if 10gns of black will be enough to do the job. If it does then more pellets is always better than less pellets.

I'm not generally a big Dremel fanboy. But in this case it should be pretty well child's play to use as large a grinding point as will fit into the 11mm punch and open it up to 11.5mm. Just be sure to continue the grinding back a ways so the discs will come out the ejection mouth correctly. And dip in water often to avoid overheating the cutting edge and turning it too far into the blue range. A bit of tan to brown is OK since that's likely what it's tempered to anyway. But if it hits much of any blue color then you're losing the hardness you want to keep.

 

[tra27]

Great! I'll think i will load on the same cylinder 10 and 20 grains powder load and mark it on the cylinder side. I'm thinking that loads bigger than 20grs might just be waste of powder...

I was also thinking that i could use dremel to widen 11mm to 11.5mm.

Do you mean like regular size 17fl. oz. soda bottle? Half liter out here.

 

[hillbilly matt]

Have not tried it myself but was reading a magazine article on the subject some time ago and the author used a 44 or 45 cal inverted gas check to seal off the cylinder mouth.

 

[tra27]

I have read about the gas check seal also. What material it is? It doesn't hurt the rifling?

 

[BCRider]

Gas checks are generally made from copper. But they only come in certain sizes to fit certain bullets. In your case you'd need to find some .452 size gas checks which may or may not fit well in the cylinder chambers. Frankly your milk carton wads are likely more suitable and certainly easier to make than finding a supply of gas checks.

The water bottle I was thinking off was just the 10 or 12 oz smaller size one. If it'll shoot through both side and leak out the water I'm thinking that this should do it for any snakes you encounter. If it perforates both sides of a 17 oz with the extra water between the sides then so much the better.

 

[tra27]

Yeah there seems to be .452 copper and aluminium gas checks, but i think i'll test the lubed wad seal first. At least its a really tight fit and i dont think it will fall of because of recoil. And think it would work also if left on for a longer period of time.

I will test also the milk carton wad when i get the hollow punch grinded to 11.5mm. A gentleman on youtube suggested glue on top of the milk carton wad if left on for longer periods.

I think i will be able to test the shots next weekend, so ill post the results afterwards.

 

[BCRider]

I'm looking at loading up Magtech brass shotgun casings to use for my black powder cowboy action shooting. Mike Bellevue in his videos on reloading suggested cheap caulking for a seal. Locally I can buy Alex Plus caulk that has a little silicone in it for around $2.50 for a caulking gun tube which has enough product in it to seal off about two and a half lifetime's worth of BP shotgun loads. And I know from using it around my renos of the last 5 years that it's easy to use and flows well. If you're using it to seal your shot reloads I'd suggest that you swing from using the "waxed" (or whatever it is) milk carton paper and instead use cereal box stock with the printed shiny side outwards and use a very small bead of the stuff around the card wad with a small amount of Alex Plus used as the sealant.

 

[tra27]

So is it meant to make the shot waterproof or just to keep it in place? I'm thinking a paper/wood clue that is a bit like caulking, flexible rubber like when dryed. Caulking might be cheaper, but this comes in a much more easier to apply small container.

 

[BCRider]

A bit of both but mostly to hold them in place I'm thinking.

In his video on BP shot shell reloading Mike uses a gluing syringe to hold some of the caulking to make the job easier. But instead of using such a messy method I'm thinking that I'd make up a stand to support the caulking gun with a full tube along with a wire to a foot pedal so I've got both hand free to spin the casing and just nip off a very small hole or maybe make up a snap on tip with a suitable size and orifice.

 

[tra27]

Well filled my cylinder with different powder loads 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 and 35. Of course the last two (perhaps last three) are just for fun. The shot load you could fit to 30 and 35 grain chamber was so small that there's no sense using that kind of powder loads. After I tested how the loads pattern at 10 feet, will try the loads with best patterns to water bottles as BCRider suggested. I'll post the results here afterwards.

 

[tra27]

Finally got to the testing part and as earlier said, quite the donut patterns i got. After shooting few from 3 m (10ft) i swithed to 2 m (~6ft) and even tryed one chamber from 1 m (3ft). 2 meters was quite ok and propably the 15gr is the wisest choice cost wise and also reasonably quite load also. I also tested 15gr shot and ball. Not too bad either, at that distance even i can be accurate.

Shot it also to 25 meters target. Seemed that i shoota quite low. I've read somewhere that the front sight is too tall and thats why it shoots low? Also its sighted at 50 yards??

Below the results



10gr 3 meters



15gr 3 meters



20gr 3 meters



35gr 3 meters

 

[tra27]

15gr 2 meters



25gr 2 meters



30gr 1 meter



15gr shot and ball 2 meters

 

[BCRider]

The 2 meter patterns are more in tune with what you'll see folks talking about for bothersome snakes. I suspect that this is where most of the dispatching of such things takes place. And certainly at 3 meters if the snake cringes just right it might fit between the pellets

Great work and great reporting. I know that I was quite curious. Not enough to do the shooting myself but it's still great to read about it.

 

[ofitg]

I'm normally in the Remmie camp, but this is one area where the .44 Colt might have an advantage - it would be easy to swap in a smoothbore barrel to use with shot loads.

 

[tra27]

The reason the testing is a bit erratic, is that accidentally shot 35 grain load at 10ft when i was supposed to shoot 15 gr load and then after 20gr load from 10ft it seemed to have no idea to continue at 10 ft and switched to 6 ft with much better results. Not too scientific..

The sweet spot seems to be 6 ft and closer with a powder load of 15-20gr (FFFg at my case), a lubed wad, filled almost full with no. 7 1/2 birdshot and a lubed wad on top of that. Also filled one cylinder with combo of birdshots/birdshot and ball/birdshot/birdshot and ball... and so on.

 

[tra27]

Did a bit more testing with the shot loads using soda bottles and cans filled with water.

15gr FFFg and shot load against 1.5 liter soda bottle, 0.5 liter sodaa bottle and 0.33 liter beer can. The pellets went through the front but stopped in to the water when shot at the 1.5L and 0.5L bottles. When the beer can was shot the pellets went clean through both sides







Same test was done with shot and ball, except the beer can was replaced with food can which is much thicker. Ball went through all as expected and pellets stayed in the water.



I dont know if the pellets would do any better if i load 20gr of powder. Will post again if i have time to test it.

 

[TruthTellers]

It looks like any charge between 10 and 15 grains of powder yields the best results. I guess shot loads for c&b handguns need to sacrifice the velocity for as many pellets as possible.

 

[rodwha]

I've read, concerning muzzleloading shotguns, that an equal volume of powder and pellets is generally ideal, but that an increase in pellets will help concentrate the shot group. I'm not positive, but I took it as the pattern was actually smaller due to a lower velocity.

 

[oldfogey4ever]

Another thread about loading shot from a revolver.

 

[tra27]

Did a penetration test on 20gr of FFFg and no difference at all. Targets the same 1.5 liter, 0.5 liter and 0.33 liter beer can.