Shot my first elk with my first handloads! (and other questions)

[The Grand Baboon]

Howdy guys. I frequented this forum towards the end of last summer asking questions about handloading and whatnot...turns out it all paid off! Just though I'd say thanks for your guys willingness to help out with the new kid on the block.

Now, on with the questions. I shot this elk dead (through the lungs) with a single 150gr Nosler ballistic tip at about 200 yards from a 308.. They were the first grain of bullet that I bought, and I'm starting to wonder if they are not the best bullet for my rifle (a Remington 700 SPS).

I've never really gotten the accuracy I'm looking for out of them and I'm wondering, given the 1:10 rate of twist in my rifle, if going with a heavier bullet would give me better groups and would be better suited for big game hunting.

Also, I'm trying different OALs because I heard that you want to have the bullet just touching the lands. I've done this (I think), but I have to load each round by hand when hunting, and when you're laying in snow with a big coat, gloves, and pants it gets rather difficult to do this. Is loading the bullet to such a length necessary for maximum accuracy?

 

[gamestalker]

If it is requiring you to single load for a hunting application, the answer is no. I too hunt elk and other game with my hand loads, and if I were experiencing a problem getting the OAL I prefer, and that groups best, to fit and feed in my 700's and other actions, I would seat to the length that will function and perform aceptably.

Fortunately I've never had problems with seating up to the lands regarding fit and feeding. What method of determining your at the lands, are you using? You might be into the lands too deep and not be aware of it. I know that with my actions and cartridges, I can get pretty deep into the lands before experiencing noticable signs that I am. Some lands are tappered more than others, and will allow the olgive to enter by 020", and even more before the round gets stuck or shows excesive resistence when chambering.

 

[Muddydogs]

For elk I prefer a 180 grain bullet, its kinda the standard. For a hunting rifle you should be able to use the magazine. I would work up a powder load with a bullet seated to fit the mag, see what you get for accuracy and adjust the charge weight accordingly. If you cannot get good accuracy this way thenthe rifle has issues. With a hunting load you should keep the shoulder back a ways so the round chambers reliably. It sounds like you are trying to mix bench rest shooting and hunting which can be done to a point or taken to far. A quick second shot is an important aspect of hunting especially when chasing game that will come after you.

 

[The Grand Baboon]

gamestalker, to determine the OAL I need I use the method out of the Nosler reloading handbook (the magic marker method). I've also been told that the 700 has an absurdly long throat length and that the OAL really doesn't matter too much (is this true?).

Muddydogs, so you think a 180 grain bullet would stabilize best out of a 1:10 twist?

 

[ReloaderFred]

I like a 165 grain bullet for all my shooting of elk. It gives you the best of both worlds, relatively flat trajectory and enough weight to do the job. I've never had an elk go more than 20 yards after being shot with one.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

in most rifles, a handloader can achieve a level of accuracy acceptable for hunting by loading to fit the magazine. think about all the folks who bag their game with factory loads that must fit SAAMI specs (and therefore the magazine).

 

[Striker Fired]

MY favorite bullet is Barnes with heavy game.A 180gr would be a good weight given the twist,but 165-170 should do well also.I've owned a lot of Rem's and some do end up with rounds too long for the magazine if running .01 to .02 off the lands.In those cases I seat the bullet deeper until it fits and then try other things, like different powders, to gain accuracy.
I shot a bull elk head on once with a 150gr Barnes out of a .270WSM at 100yrs and after going through the thicker part of a shoulder and four ribs,I found the bullet between the rear quarters. So 150gr can do the job just fine as well if they shoot best out of your gun.

 

[chrome_austex]

I spent some time experimenting with loads just off the lands in my 308 Rem 700 SPS, and yes, my 700 had a very long throat.

I could find the lands (155 scenars), but the loads were so long the bullets were almost out of the neck, and I didn't find any additional accuracy out there. YMMV as I'm fairly new to the handloading thing too.

Anyways, I think fine tuning your powder charge and experimenting with different bullets may get your more accuracy than fishing for the lands on a stock 700. Factory 'Match' ammo is all mag-length and shoots pretty damn well, due to a sweet spot in powder weight, IIRC.

 

[USSR]

...I heard that you want to have the bullet just touching the lands.

Pretty hard to get all your bullets "just touching the lands". The reason is, even the best match bullets such as the Sierra MatchKings, will vary in ogive dimensions by as much as .010". So, what you end up with is bullets with varying amounts of contact with the lands, and possibly some with no contact. Not really conducive to accuracy. So I make it a point to keep my hunting and casual target shooting loads with the bullets at least .010" - .015" of the lands. I used to load my 139gr 6.5mm bullets .020" into the lands when I was competitively shooting, and found that I had to drop the charge weight about 1 grain to get the same velocity as I had when seating the bullet .012" off the lands.

Don

 

[GJgo]

I've loaded for a number of 30 cal 10 twist tubes in various calibers, and they've all preferred 180-ish grain bullets for accuracy. YMMV of course. With that said, for pointing a 308 at Elk I'd try out TSX in 165/168 grain at .050" off the lands.

 

[Naterater]

+1 to 700's having long throats. I believe the accuracy gained from coming near the lands is lost by run-out of the bullet.

I hope this helps.

 

[Jdillon]

+1on the long free bore on the 700's. With most short action 700's the magazine will be the limiting factor for OAL. Wouldn't worry about it too much and just work up the best powder/bullet combination for accuracy. Bullet weights from 150 gr + are fine for elk and seen many taken with 130gr from a 270. Biggest problem with heavier bullets is the increased recoil.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Nosler Ballistic Tips are great bullets but they don't really need to be loaded to the lands...some bullets require it and some don't.

Remington rifles have short magazines and long throats so I always use 168 grain Ballistic Tips, the 150's are a bit too destructive for me...just load them to whatever length will fit and feed through your rifle (probably 2.81" at the most).

44 grains of Varget or Reloder 15 usually shoots pretty good out of most any rifle with 168's.

 

[The Grand Baboon]

Hah, Ridgerunner, my OAL was 2.85"...just barely too long it seems like.

I'm headed down to the local Cabellas at the moment, I plan on picking up some 180gr Noslers. I have some IMR 3031 and 4064 that I plan on finishing off before I buy anything new.

Another question though. Concerning primers, is the difference in accuracy from primer brand to brand enough to warrant trying a bunch of different brands?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Not really...I use CCI BR2's on anything that takes large rifle primers, from 308 to 45-70.

I choose BR2's not so much because of accuracy, but because of reliability...I have experienced way too many duds using other brands...Federal also makes decent primers.