Shot Size for Home Defense
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I dug out the 870 just for grins and tried to refresh my memory of how some of the loads would pattern. It has a sighted, smooth bore slug barrel and a 30 trap job. I hadn't been much impressed with 9 pellet 00 buck at 25 yards, so I tried the S&B 12 pellet load. Like that one.
The Combat! Experts! seem to like #1 Buck better. It was not as tight from my open choke barrel but really laid in a dense pattern from the full choke trap barrel.
When I group slugs, I just sit down on the ground and use my knees for a rest. if their is a back rest available, I lean against that. It seems like every 50 yard group with whatever foster slug goes 4"
Back when I was carrying this around in a hidden rack behind my truck seat, I used Magnum 2 3/4" Number 4 buck with 34 pellets. Kicked a lot but was a real saturater
The Combat! Experts! seem to like #1 Buck better. It was not as tight from my open choke barrel but really laid in a dense pattern from the full choke trap barrel.
When I group slugs, I just sit down on the ground and use my knees for a rest. if their is a back rest available, I lean against that. It seems like every 50 yard group with whatever foster slug goes 4"
Back when I was carrying this around in a hidden rack behind my truck seat, I used Magnum 2 3/4" Number 4 buck with 34 pellets. Kicked a lot but was a real saturater
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Redneck Revolver
Member
i have another question, not sure if its already been answered here or not. does tungsten shot have more penetrative capabilities then steel or lead? i ask this because the standard armor piercing bullets are now tungsten cored.
GigaBuist
Member
I was out this weekend dumping 8 pellet 00 Buck Federal low recoil shells onto paper at 15 yards. In the 30-40 shells I fired 3 of them acted like slugs - after -15- yards mind you. This was from a 20" barrel SxS -- no choke.
No_Brakes23
Member
Lee & Dave gave what sounds like real solid advice.
I have a question, though.
First some info about my situation.
I cannot run to a panic room in my current set-up. I will eventually live in a house, but for a year or so more I am stuck in an apartment. No pets allowed, and unfortunately the kids bedroom is closer to the front door than my bedroom. So unfortunately that means I have to "clear" the house (To at least the kids room,) everytime my wife or I hear "something." "Clearing" the house, (<1k sq ft apt, actually) consists of me grabbing a Mag-light and either my KA-BAR or a handgun. (Lately that has been the knife, as I don't have a separate quiet handgun safe yet.) I have no weapon lights yet, and the 28"barrel 12ga is a simply not practical to get out of the safe or weild in the tiny hallways. (Everything else I own is C & R.)
Now I live in a "nice" area, but not rich, so I doubt I will ever get hit. But I don't want to get complacent. My Jeep was broken into just a couple weeks ago, (Too bad for them I have nothing worth stealing in there.) But, I am not going to wake up the kids everytime I hear a "noise," they have enough trouble sleeping through the night.
So my question is, how would you (And I mean Lee Lapin, here,) apply your advice to a situation where ensuring my children are safe puts me within eyesight of the living room and entryway?
I have a question, though.
First some info about my situation.
I cannot run to a panic room in my current set-up. I will eventually live in a house, but for a year or so more I am stuck in an apartment. No pets allowed, and unfortunately the kids bedroom is closer to the front door than my bedroom. So unfortunately that means I have to "clear" the house (To at least the kids room,) everytime my wife or I hear "something." "Clearing" the house, (<1k sq ft apt, actually) consists of me grabbing a Mag-light and either my KA-BAR or a handgun. (Lately that has been the knife, as I don't have a separate quiet handgun safe yet.) I have no weapon lights yet, and the 28"barrel 12ga is a simply not practical to get out of the safe or weild in the tiny hallways. (Everything else I own is C & R.)
Now I live in a "nice" area, but not rich, so I doubt I will ever get hit. But I don't want to get complacent. My Jeep was broken into just a couple weeks ago, (Too bad for them I have nothing worth stealing in there.) But, I am not going to wake up the kids everytime I hear a "noise," they have enough trouble sleeping through the night.
So my question is, how would you (And I mean Lee Lapin, here,) apply your advice to a situation where ensuring my children are safe puts me within eyesight of the living room and entryway?
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
No_Brakes,
Tough one. When you build or buy your house, keep ideas about securing the family in mind as you choose a floorplan and assign bedrooms.
In your current situation there are some things I'd need to know before being able to offer much help- is your apt on the ground floor? What is your background/history/training? How many kids/how old or more importantly how mature? How many bedrooms w/people sleeping in them, just two or more than two? What's the rest of the floorplan like? What kind of shotgun do you have and are barrels easily interchangeable and widely available for it? Is your handgun of a sufficient caliber and how good are you with it? How about your wife? Is she a shooter too? Do you have a cell phone and if so where do you keep it? What are your threats and how likely is it your number will come up? How good are the local LEOs, what is their response time?
Not knowing those things...
If you are on the ground floor, every window and door is a potential access point. Secure your perimeter by securing every possible access point- not so much worry about making them entry-proof as that's not possible, especially in rental property. But you can make sure no one can come in without you being awakened and _knowing_ an attempt at entry is being made due to the noise they make. Make sure all doors and windows are locked at bedtime without fail. You should know the tricks for securing windows and doors that are not adequately locked at present- drilling a small hole in the window track/frame to insert a nail, dropping a broomhandle in the track of a sliding door to block it closed etc.
There are various alarms and devices that will make noise if triggered- door- wedge shaped alarms and individual window alarms etc. None of these necessarily require permanent installation either. And there are other devices that can be adapted to such use- the little pull-pin type battery powered 'personal alarms' can be rigged with a tripwire for example. But however you do it, make sure no one can gain illicit entry without waking you up. You should not have to be in doubt as to what the source of 'a noise' is if you accomplish securing your household against the likelihood of silent entry by intruders.
With things in place so that silent entry is unlikely, you have to think about what to do if one of your noisemakers goes off. You have to decide on a secure position to operate from. The closest secure position is always your own bedside with your back against the wall and the bed between you and the door. Since this is not a good choice in your case as it leaves your children vulnerable, I would suggest an immediate move to the childrens' room by you adults is in order if an alarm sounds, since you will not want the children to have to come to you. This puts you at a significant disadvantage of course, and you should of course move carefully in executing a plan that the kids are aware of and in which they are active participants. But you have to get everyone in sight and under control before you hunker down.
It may mean rearranging the furniture in the childrens' bedroom so there is a place large enough for all of you to occupy that provides cover between you and the door. It could be arranged by using the beds, or loaded bookshelves or toy chests- you get the idea. But you need to have a space to get them into so you can secure them, and you need to be able to get there quickly without having to worry about the children wandering around looking for you in the process. And if you are to make preparations for controlling external lighting, arrangements for that should be in place in your secure space. If there is a phone jack in the room, an extension phone would not be out of place either.
Just as with a family fire evacuation plan, your children should know what to do in the event of an intrusion. And if they are old enough to be sleeping in a separate room, that should not be a problem. Your plan should be explained in the same fashion as a family fire plan, not to scare them but to make sure they know what to do if something happens. And rehersals are in order for this plan also.
Meanwhile back at the ranch, how exactly do you go about making this move to the kids' room if something happens? What do you take with you? Go fast or go slow? That's where your plan comes into play. Since the easy way (hunkering down at your own bedside) is not open to you, allowances have to be made in your planning. You need to figure out how to arrange the things you will need with you so you can find them readily. You need to plan how you will get those things to the childrens' room, that is, who carries what (unless you have three hands), who goes first etc. Think of it as a combat patrol down the hallway. At minimum you will need gun/light/cell phone. The old infantry requirements come into play- you need to be able to shoot, move and communicate. Those things are up to you, there isn't much else I can offer as to getting it done in your own particular circumstances. Tactical movement indoors is not my favorite thing to do, I assure you. It can be hazardous even if you are good at it (and I am not), that's why I advise finding ways not to have to do it.
I would keep the Ka-Bar as a fallback and work with the handgun no matter what its caliber. The gun can be secured when no one is home to attend it, it should be available when an adult is at home. Consider carrying it holstered while at home and awake, transferring it to the bedside at night, and putting it in the safe when you leave home. I have a small lockbox (a freebie from an insurance company) that I have kept for several decades. It has an easy-to-manipulate three disc combination lock, at times when I shared houses with children I kept my handgun in it with the combination set one number away from opening. My mother still uses a similar container from the same source to secure her handgun at her bedside. There are far better containers available now to serve such a purpose.
The Maglight will work as a close range weapon if it comes to that and it should already be in your hand if anything happens. Keep its batteries fresh and work on one handed and light assisted shooting techniques, if you are unfamiliar with them try to find Andy Stanford's _Fight at Night_, Louis Awerbuck's _Tactical Reality_ or any of several other useful sources that cover the subject. And practice... .
Develop a plan that suits your situation, abilities and your family. Be realistic and practical, none of it requires a lot of expense if you think about it and improvise carefully (oldest improvised noisemaker is an empty tin can with rocks in it after all). Your own and your wife's courage and skills are your biggest asset in protecting your family, plans and tools can be worked on and honed. Assess your threats, develop a plan, practice the plan. Keep your eyes open to weaknesses and vulnerabilities, and what-if your situation/plan/preparations in a realistic manner.
Stay safe,
lpl/nc
Tough one. When you build or buy your house, keep ideas about securing the family in mind as you choose a floorplan and assign bedrooms.
In your current situation there are some things I'd need to know before being able to offer much help- is your apt on the ground floor? What is your background/history/training? How many kids/how old or more importantly how mature? How many bedrooms w/people sleeping in them, just two or more than two? What's the rest of the floorplan like? What kind of shotgun do you have and are barrels easily interchangeable and widely available for it? Is your handgun of a sufficient caliber and how good are you with it? How about your wife? Is she a shooter too? Do you have a cell phone and if so where do you keep it? What are your threats and how likely is it your number will come up? How good are the local LEOs, what is their response time?
Not knowing those things...
If you are on the ground floor, every window and door is a potential access point. Secure your perimeter by securing every possible access point- not so much worry about making them entry-proof as that's not possible, especially in rental property. But you can make sure no one can come in without you being awakened and _knowing_ an attempt at entry is being made due to the noise they make. Make sure all doors and windows are locked at bedtime without fail. You should know the tricks for securing windows and doors that are not adequately locked at present- drilling a small hole in the window track/frame to insert a nail, dropping a broomhandle in the track of a sliding door to block it closed etc.
There are various alarms and devices that will make noise if triggered- door- wedge shaped alarms and individual window alarms etc. None of these necessarily require permanent installation either. And there are other devices that can be adapted to such use- the little pull-pin type battery powered 'personal alarms' can be rigged with a tripwire for example. But however you do it, make sure no one can gain illicit entry without waking you up. You should not have to be in doubt as to what the source of 'a noise' is if you accomplish securing your household against the likelihood of silent entry by intruders.
With things in place so that silent entry is unlikely, you have to think about what to do if one of your noisemakers goes off. You have to decide on a secure position to operate from. The closest secure position is always your own bedside with your back against the wall and the bed between you and the door. Since this is not a good choice in your case as it leaves your children vulnerable, I would suggest an immediate move to the childrens' room by you adults is in order if an alarm sounds, since you will not want the children to have to come to you. This puts you at a significant disadvantage of course, and you should of course move carefully in executing a plan that the kids are aware of and in which they are active participants. But you have to get everyone in sight and under control before you hunker down.
It may mean rearranging the furniture in the childrens' bedroom so there is a place large enough for all of you to occupy that provides cover between you and the door. It could be arranged by using the beds, or loaded bookshelves or toy chests- you get the idea. But you need to have a space to get them into so you can secure them, and you need to be able to get there quickly without having to worry about the children wandering around looking for you in the process. And if you are to make preparations for controlling external lighting, arrangements for that should be in place in your secure space. If there is a phone jack in the room, an extension phone would not be out of place either.
Just as with a family fire evacuation plan, your children should know what to do in the event of an intrusion. And if they are old enough to be sleeping in a separate room, that should not be a problem. Your plan should be explained in the same fashion as a family fire plan, not to scare them but to make sure they know what to do if something happens. And rehersals are in order for this plan also.
Meanwhile back at the ranch, how exactly do you go about making this move to the kids' room if something happens? What do you take with you? Go fast or go slow? That's where your plan comes into play. Since the easy way (hunkering down at your own bedside) is not open to you, allowances have to be made in your planning. You need to figure out how to arrange the things you will need with you so you can find them readily. You need to plan how you will get those things to the childrens' room, that is, who carries what (unless you have three hands), who goes first etc. Think of it as a combat patrol down the hallway. At minimum you will need gun/light/cell phone. The old infantry requirements come into play- you need to be able to shoot, move and communicate. Those things are up to you, there isn't much else I can offer as to getting it done in your own particular circumstances. Tactical movement indoors is not my favorite thing to do, I assure you. It can be hazardous even if you are good at it (and I am not), that's why I advise finding ways not to have to do it.
I would keep the Ka-Bar as a fallback and work with the handgun no matter what its caliber. The gun can be secured when no one is home to attend it, it should be available when an adult is at home. Consider carrying it holstered while at home and awake, transferring it to the bedside at night, and putting it in the safe when you leave home. I have a small lockbox (a freebie from an insurance company) that I have kept for several decades. It has an easy-to-manipulate three disc combination lock, at times when I shared houses with children I kept my handgun in it with the combination set one number away from opening. My mother still uses a similar container from the same source to secure her handgun at her bedside. There are far better containers available now to serve such a purpose.
The Maglight will work as a close range weapon if it comes to that and it should already be in your hand if anything happens. Keep its batteries fresh and work on one handed and light assisted shooting techniques, if you are unfamiliar with them try to find Andy Stanford's _Fight at Night_, Louis Awerbuck's _Tactical Reality_ or any of several other useful sources that cover the subject. And practice... .
Develop a plan that suits your situation, abilities and your family. Be realistic and practical, none of it requires a lot of expense if you think about it and improvise carefully (oldest improvised noisemaker is an empty tin can with rocks in it after all). Your own and your wife's courage and skills are your biggest asset in protecting your family, plans and tools can be worked on and honed. Assess your threats, develop a plan, practice the plan. Keep your eyes open to weaknesses and vulnerabilities, and what-if your situation/plan/preparations in a realistic manner.
Stay safe,
lpl/nc
I bought some low recoil OOOO buck that the police use at a gun show. I have houses on both sides of me, and don't want it to go through my house, and hit a neighbor....the perp, will not walk away from a good hit with a 12 gauge, but don't want to get the neighbor also....
only1asterisk
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0000 is too big to stack in 12ga. .38" if memory serves.
David
David
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Maybe he meant #4 buck?
lpl/nc
lpl/nc
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