Shotgun For Home Defense

[Vector]

I am thinking of getting a shotgun for home defense. I have several handguns and long guns but like the thought of an inexpensive shotgun. A friend has one like this so I'd like your opinions on it or something like it.




I might also want to carry concealed now and then (have ccw) so small size would be a bonus. However dependability and price will be more important.

 

[Halo is for Kids]

http://serbu.com/top/superShorty.php Seem's that $705(Gun)+$20(shipping)+$5(AOW)= not inexpensive shotgun.

There's so much more to be said, but it's so early(in the thread and AM).

Welcome to the high road.

 

[BlackBearME]

If it's something like that you really want, you would probably be better off buying a used Mossy/Remmy and Filing a Form 1 to make an SBS. Yeah, it's 200 dollars, but the used gun (2-275) plus the SBS (200) still puts you in under what a Serbu would cost. Of course, you have to wait for the approval...then again, that can be circumvented (the wait, not the legalities) with a trust, or a corporation...but you still have to wait. Doesn't do you any good for HD if it's in transit. But then again, you would still have the shotty in the meantime, could even PG it, you just couldn't cut it down until your Form 1 is approved. but that's the way I'd go, if it's a short pump type your'e looking for.

The way I'd really go is a Saiga 12, done up in SBS (and if you can find one, you're still looking at less than the Serbu- 450+20S&H+200SBS) with a folding stock. You still have a shorty, but higher capacity (that Serbu is 2+1 if I remember correctly)

Holy crap, I'm rambling. I'm going to bed, will check in later.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Get a used 870, 1300, 37 or 500 and learn to use it. Much more versatile than the short barreled ones, much more effective also.

 

[sm]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=306386

 

[Fred Fuller]

"Inexpensive" in my mind is a mechanically sound older model 870 Express, Wingmaster or Police gun for around $200 or less. Those are what we keep in place to defend the household here, with a few suitable modifications- 18- 20" barrels, short stocks, sights, lights, sling swivels and Sidesaddles.

Best advice I can give is to get a standard riot-type shotgun, get it fitted properly to you, and learn to run it as if your life depended on it. Leave the SBS/AOW stuff to people looking for big boy's toys, if you are serious about a defensive shotgun.

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc

 

[foghornl]

I have tried the Pistol-Grip-Only (PGO), and it does NOT work for me. Ask me how I came to be known as "Rocky Raccoon" for a couple of weeks, after trying the PGO, and forgettting that's how it was set up...

My HomeLand Security shotgun is a Maverick 88, with the 18-1/2" cylinder bore-barrel. Buckshot good to about 22-25Yds, slugs beyond that. Has standard full-length stock.

That super-short shotgun you have pictured....Yeah it IS intimidating looking, but how practical is it? Can you 'reach out & touch something' with a slug at say 40 Yds if needed?

 

[onewithgun]

You can pick up a Mossberg 500 Persuader for $300 brand new. 7 Shot magazine.
It also comes with a pistol grip that you can put on to make it shorter.
Some #00 Buck, or #4 Buck will work just fine. Perhaps a slug or 20 incase you have to shoot a car door or something.


Good Luck

 

[Vector]

Thanks for all the responses so far.

I can see that I made a mistake by posting a picture of a gun that I am not familiar with, and asking if it would fit the bill. I obviously did not know the cost or hoops I'd need to jump through to own one. Maybe my friend was also unaware of how much I wanted to spend since a few of my other guns are not inexpensive.

Another issue is my lack of knowledge when it comes to legal requirements. All the guns I currently have were bought many years ago, so I have not kept up with current state or federal laws. Don't get me wrong, I am not one of the ignorant masses that owns guns but does nothing to protect the right to bear arms. I have been an NRA member for decades, and strongly consider politicians records/positions on the 2nd amendment.
But since I have not been in the market for any new firearms, I have not kept up with any of the newer restrictions. For instance, you could walk into a gun shop and pick up a shotgun without any paperwork years ago. Now it seems as if you need to submit paperwork to buy shotguns?
It is not like I want a streetsweeper or something, but I guess a shotgun that is small enough to be concealed probably has the gun grabbers up in arms(no pun intended)

Anyway, feel free to give more suggestions for short or medium barrel shotguns, and any requirements needed. Since I have a ccw I probably do not have a waiting period, but I'd prefer no paperwork if possible. I guess I might be better off buying a used shotgun in great condition?

 

[BlackBearME]

OK, I'm more conscious now.

I suggested the SBS route because you had mentioned wanted something concealed, etc. Like the other said, for practical use you can get a Mossy or Remmy for 200-300. Take it to the range and shoot the crap out of it. Burn in muscle memory (of course, you want to do that with whatever you buy)

Now it seems as if you need to submit paperwork to buy shotguns?

I'm sorry, I wasn't really conscious when I posted earlier, and didn't elaborate very well. The paperwork/etc that I was rambling about earlier is only in regards the Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS) Or the Serbu that you posted earlier, which is technically an AOW. These are NFA items, and require compliance with the National Firearms Act of 1934. Basically, anything extraordinary - machine guns, short barreled rifles (<16") short barreled Shotguns (<18"), silencers, etc. - requires filling out a Form 4, getting certification from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) in your jurisdiction, getting fingerprinted, sending it and $200 to the Alphabet Police, waiting a couple of months, then finally getting approval. The Serbu above is technically an AOW - any other weapon. Under NFAclassification, this means pretty much anything else not covered (pen guns, cane guns, etc.) as well as shotguns which have a pistol grip only, and never have had a stock attached to it. That's why the transfer fee on that would be $5, as opposed to $200. (It still costs you $200, and the same rigamarole, in order to make an AOW/SBS.)

But yeah, like they all said, get something, and use it, learn it. BA/UU/R. If down the road you still want a shorty, for easier concealment etc., you can always pay the $200 and chop it down.

ETA: Also, before you go too far down that road, you may just want to check and make sure NFA items are legal in your state - you didn't say where you are.

 

[Justin]

It also comes with a pistol grip that you can put on to make it shorter.

Pistol Grip only shotguns are nearly useless.

 

[foghornl]

On the paperwork question(s)

No matter where you are (in the USA) you will have to fill out the Federal 4473 form, and do the NICS check...takes about 10 minutes. SOME states & cities have "waiting periods", as long as 10 days.

Also note that in SOME states, if you have a Concealed Carry License, you MAY be exempt from the NICS check. As long as you are not buying a "Short Barrel Shotgun" or the "Any Other Weapon" class of firearm, it is pay & take with you...see above for exemptions

Are you confused yet? Just getting started on gun law. . .

 

[BlackBearME]

Are you confused yet? Just getting started on gun law. . .

Heh, and that's just buying a gun, never mind storing it/carrying it/transporting it/where and when you can and can't shoot it.....it really is ridiculous.

Yeah, as far as just buying your average gun, any FFL can walk you through it (and will be more than happy to, because they want the sale). Fill out the 4473, check the boxes, wait a few minutes, and if you are who you say you are, and have been a good boy, you've got it. I was mostly elaborating insofar as the NFA paperwork, but when I saw you hadn't bought a gun in a while (a bad assumption on my part - seems most of us around here are buying one every week or so ) I realized that wasn't enough. Even when you're buying an NFA item (like that Serbu you posted) you're still going to have to fill out the 4473 and have the NICS done.

 

[sm]

Vector I wrote:
inexpensive shotgun.

H&R Topper, Youth , 20 gauge, single shot shotgun, fixed modified choke, factory recoil pad is MY Serious Shotgun.
My loading is Slugs.

Less than a $100 at the time it was purchased new.

Used, these can be had for much less.

 

[MCgunner]

Well, the cops and a jury would really love you when you had to use that thing. I know, cross that bridge when you come to it, better judged by 12 than carried by six, right. Just sayin.....

Friend of mine has a class three Cobray 9mm that will dump a 30 round mag about as fast as that shotgun could fire twice, but he doesn't use the gun for defense. It's just a toy. He worries about if you were to use it in a shooting, what a DA would do to him. Of course, he carries a friggin' .22, says he ain't gonna be shootin' more'n arms length, what does he need a bigger gun for? I don't really agree with him on THAT, LOL.

 

[Stretchman]

FOr shotguns. Remington 870, or Mossberg 500/590. Either or. If you want a Pistol grip, with an adjustable stock, the 870 is probasbly better, If you want to run a regular stock, the Mossy is probably set up better than the Remmy.

Remmys are built better. Mossys are easier to handle because they are lighter, but will kick some more as a result. Try both out for feel. I could live with either, but I prefer the 870.

Pros and cons to both.

 

[Regolith]

It should be noted that while a Remington will probably outlast a Mossberg, you won't be around to see it happen, unless you shoot it a LOT.

They are both extremely good guns, especially for the price. I wouldn't hesitate to use either in an HD situation. I ended up getting a Remington, because it felt better in my hands, but that was a completely personal choice.

My suggestion is to go to a gun store (most will have examples of both models on their shelves) and pick up and handle both, and then decide. I couldn't decide between the two for months, and it was going to a gun store and handling them that finally helped me make my choice.

 

[gp911]

You mention you're not quite up on the current laws, and have a ccw permit. You may want to check to see if a short-barrelled shotgun is actually covered by it, as some states consider it a handgun-only permit. Besides, a Serbu shorty or similar is more of a novelty item then a serious defensive weapon. A riot-style pump (870, 500, 1300, etc. etc.) will be easier to use for pretty much anybody in a defensive situation, and the likelihood of a jury appreciating the coolness of your defensive shotgun when you only maim the perp is close to nil. The Taurus Judge is a concealable, legal weapon that shoots .410 and 45LC, but in the end you'd be better served with a traditional shotgun for home defense and if you want a .410 handgun to carry you have a couple choices available.

gp911

 

[revjen45]

"You can pick up a Mossberg 500 Persuader for $300 brand new."
Big 5 has them for about $240. For $90-100 more you can get a 590. Just watch their ads.
It ain't concealable, but it's bad. If you want to carry concealed get a handgun.

 

[Ceemack]

This topic's been pretty well covered, but I'll give you my two cents.

A pistol-grip-only shotgun is very hard to use with any effectiveness. Even with a shortened barrel and open choke, the pellets will be clustered fairly tightly at reasonable defensive distances. That means you'll have to aim--forget the notion that you can just point in the general direction of your target and pull the trigger. We also don't want to talk about what the recoil is like, unless you want to use the mini-shells from Aguila.

Frankly, I'm not even a fan of pistol grips on pump guns even when they've also got a shoulder stock. I find it too hard to manipulate the slide release, which is the most important control on a pump shotgun. They're great for semiautos, not so great for pumps.

If your shotgun has a shoulder stock you can spend a lot of time shooting trap or skeet with it. There's no substitute for practice.

As for the Remington vs. Mossberg argument, I'm definitely of the opinion that there really IS a difference between the two. I've got a couple of 870s, and I've got a buddy who uses a Mossberg 500 and a Winchester 1300. I've never had a malfunction with either of my guns, and my buddy has never had one with the 1300. The Mossberg is another story altogether. The extractor is kind of weak, and his had a rough chamber. I polished the chamber and replaced the worn extractor, which got it CLOSE to 100% reliable. Personally, I wouldn't trust one as a defensive piece.

I also find the slide release very hard to use on the 500. It's much easier to operate on the 870.

You'll never see a 500 in a police cruiser--it's always an 870. Having worked with and worked on examples of both guns, I understand why.

 

[Regolith]

I also find the slide release very hard to use on the 500. It's much easier to operate on the 870.

That's completely a personal preference, actually. I find the Mossberg 500's slide release easier to use I don't have to move my hand to disengage it, unlike the 870's. I got my 870 in spite of the slide release, not because of it.

I also know of no other manufacturer who has the slide release in the same position as the Rem 870's. Everyone else has it right behind the trigger on the left side of the gun, same as the Mossberg.

 

[Vector]

I just updated my profile to include my location. I live in Florida where gun laws are pretty light compared with some of the communist block states

This is really going to sound like a dumb question, but if I buy a shotgun from a private party, even a short barrel, can I get away with not filing paperwork on it?
The obvious answer is probably yes, but I still want to know what the federal law says in case I some day have the storm troopers serve the wrong house with a search warrant (happens here more than you might imagine).
Additionally, what is the law regarding sawing off part of the barrel of a 870 or 1300 for example? I imagine it is not legal, but still would like to know. My ccw allows me to carry just about anything provided it is concealed, and I typically carry my .45
The thought of being able to carry a sawed off shotgun is appealing, but probably not to practical in most situations.

Again, thanks for all the responses as it appears I've stumbled upon the right board for gun info and helpful owners.

 

[Regolith]

If you buy a regular shotgun from another non-FFL private party (with an 18" or longer barrel) you don't have to do any paper work (so long as your state allows it, anyway). You don't have to fill out the 4473 form and go through a background check.

If the shotgun's barrel is less than 18", you still have to fill out all of the NFA paperwork, get the background check, etc and pay the $200 stamp for the transfer.

 

[Regolith]

Incidentally, here's the BATF's FAQ section, which contains a lot of information about federal firearm laws: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm

Note that these do not include state laws.

 

[boredelmo]

Wait, did you just say you wanted to carry a SBS as a CCW piece?!