Shotgun or lever action for bear

[bad_aim_billy]

Wow, this thread is still going? Here, I'll make it easy for all of you. The three things to do if you're in bear country:

1. Carry bear spray.
2. Keep a clean camp. Yes, that means hanging your food and scented items.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2.

Any questions?

 

[gunnie]

1. bear spray effectiveness varies as much as wind direction.
2. it wouldn't take much investigation to find mauling victims who weren't even near food.
3. revise "easy for all of you" absolute rules.

gunnie

 

[JImbothefiveth]

The .44 magnum is about as powerful from a marlin as a .30-30.

Nuttin' wrong with the .30-30, either, ya know, or the .35 Remington.

While they may or may not be adequate for subsistence hunting, he's talking about defense. I wouldn't want to use a .30-30- or .35 remington fro grizzly bear defense.

can a bolt gun be fired as fast as a lever action with practice?

I think the real question is if you practiced an equal amount of time with each which would be faster? Keep in mind how much you will actually practice and how much of it will be practicing for shooting at bears.

Also, if you use a shotgun with slugs, use the right slugs. NO deer slugs and the like.

 

[Maverick223]

bear spray effectiveness varies as much as wind direction.

and the bear's personal taste...some like a little seasoning on their steak.

While they may or may not be adequate for subsistence hunting, he's talking about defense. I wouldn't want to use a .30-30- or .35 remington fro grizzly bear defense.

I agree, even 45-70 is not a guarantee with a big Kodiak. A .416Rigby/.458WM is probably about ideal for defense (of course who wants to lug one around)...second shots are a luxury when you're being hunted.

 

[saturno_v]

The .44 magnum is about as powerful from a marlin as a .30-30.

Not exactly....the 30 WCF still has few hundreds ft/lb more of energy at the muzzle and because of its better BC, it retain much more than the 44 Mag at a distance.....furthermore the 30-30 better SD it results, as general rule, (actual results depends on the specific type of bullet you use) in better penetration.

I wouldn't want to use a .30-30- or .35 remington fro grizzly bear defense

Not ideal but they have been used (and 44 Mag carbines as well) over and over for the purpose, very successfully....

 

[gga357]

Most people agree that 45-70 is good. You can easily load 45lc (Ruger TC only) to near 45-70 levels. 300gr flat point or partition at 1200fps out of a 7.5" barrel. Out of a 20" 92' lever action you have 10 rounds at somewhere around 1600-1800fps. In a very handy package. If not move up to the 92' in .454 and you have better than 45-70 and 1-2 more rounds.

 

[gunnie]

gga357,

is 454 a standard chambering for aforementioned 92? if so, this could also lower the weight for backpacking? no experience with that model.

Readyrod,

same also suffers from being expensive ammo. but if reserved for defensive use, not a major consideration?

gunnie

 

[Maverick223]

If not move up to the 92' in .454 and you have better than 45-70

You sure about that? It may be marginally better than a trapdoor load, but far behind a modern 45-70 or one loaded for Ruger No. 1 and the like.

 

[gunnie]

Maverick223,

"...You sure about that? It may be marginally better than a trapdoor load, but far behind a modern 45-70 or one loaded for Ruger No. 1 and the like."...

hence, far behind the 45/70 420gr hammerhead linked to on posting #100, bottom of last page?

Readyrod,

if so, i'd FOR SURE go with the heavier 405 grainer, and learn to like the minimal weight differences between the two chamberings.

gunnie

 

[Maverick223]

hence, far behind the 45/70 420gr hammerhead linked to on posting #100, bottom of last page?

Yep, and you can even go a bit faster. That is not to say that the .454 is a slouch, just not a modern .45-70.

 

[Readyrod]

I'm just not sure about getting a caliber that may be hard to find or expensive. The 45-70 looks good though. What kind of hunting can I do with the 45-70?

 

[Maverick223]

What kind of hunting can I do with the 45-70?

Do you ever travel outside the continent? Then your good. It will kill all game (and what isn't considered game) in NA.

 

[gunnie]

"...It will kill all game (and what isn't considered game) in NA. "...

+1

from garrett's website:

..."Although producing less energy than our +P ammo, this 420-grainer will penetrate through the heaviest North American game from end to end and provides quick incapacitation. With a Taylor Knockout Value 10% greater than 300-grain bullets from the 375 Holland & Holland, it delivers brutal power with modest recoil."...

gunnie

 

[gga357]

gunnie,

Yes it is a standard model for Puma.

Mav,

I was talking about "standard" 45-70. Modern 45-70 IMO is more appropriate for Africa.

 

[Maverick223]

Modern 45-70 IMO is more appropriate for Africa.

I was referring to the non-dumbed down loads from Hornady, Winchester, and the like. NO .45-70 is suitable for the "big-5" in Africa IMO, especially most of the modern factory loadings (Winchester, Hornady, et cetera) but then again I have never hunted in Africa.

EDITED to add: No matter how you compare .45-70 to .454, with comparable loadings (low pressure vs. low P, standard vs. standard, hot vs. hot) the .45-70 will always come out on top...sometimes bigger is just better.

 

[gga357]

Agree, just think the .454 an handle the OP's needs.

 

[Readyrod]

I guess the Marlin guide guns looks good. Maybe I'll think about that one. Can it really take on the big 5 in Africa? At what range?
BTW I've been to Africa twice. Once in East Africa and the other in West Africa. Didn't see any game in West Africa but saw a fair amount on the East side. I spent a week at the Hopkirk(?) game ranch helping out when I was there, at the time they were supplying game meat to the restaurants in Nairobi. Had to keep low though cause I wasn't really supposed to be there. Nice place. The owner had a pet cheetah. I'd love to go back. Africa really captures your heart.

 

[Maverick223]

Can it really take on the big 5 in Africa? At what range?

I wouldn't use anything less than a .416Rigby (and still feel a little undergunned for Elephant and Rhino) at any range. I don't think I would want to carry the .458WM either, due to pressure problems in the early cartridges. It is true that .45-70Govt. has taken large African game (cape buff. is the largest that I know of), it just wouldn't be my choice.