Shotshow+Gunstores=big angry man

[redloki]

I have been wanting to shoot in NRA Highpower service rifle for sometime. I have spent countless hours scouring the internet, reading and researching what rifle suit me and what I want to buy. Now, this is not a what rifle to buy thread so don't turn it into one. I've made my choice. Today, with a cashed tax returns I went in search of the chosen RRA NM A4. There was a big gunshow going on in Little Rock so I drove the 60 miles there. The fads got the better of me. With the exception of a few Colt SP1's A1's and varmit configuration AR-15's which are not service rifle legal. There were almost no AR-15 A2's or A4's to be had. The only thing the majority had were tricked out M4 type Ar-15's. There was one Colt NM A2 that had seen better days but it was not what I was looking for. Leaving there I stopped by a gunstore that is listed as a dealer on a Rock River Arms website. I thought perhaps they would have one. I thought wrong. I stood at the counter as two young boys were milling about. One was talking to a friend,not a customer. The other was stocking shelves. They didn't have a single RRA in stock. The lad I talked too didn't even seem intrested in ordering one as I asked a price, mumbling something about the shotshow and prices. He ignored me and answered the ringing phone. I turned around leaving the two Colt's they were trying to sell me on the counter despite the fact that I wanted a specific rifle and said fine if you don't want my business I'll go elsewhere. He did manage a little too late lowering the phone and covering the mouthpiece telling me he can beat anyones price as I was walking out the door. I was mad. I drove to my local shop and I once again asked him to get the rifle for me. I had talked to him in the latter part of December about the same rifle. He said the new prices would be out in January after I told him it would be a month of so before I had all of the money but he said come talk to him then and it won't be a problem. When I showed up today he whipped out one of their new books and it was not there. I know it exists it's on their updated website. He too mentioned the shotshow, new prices and said he would call them Monday and check on it. MONDAY!!! I wanted to order the rifle today. Last year I went through the same thing wanting a Kimber CDP I got so mad then too I just went to a gunshow and bought a Kimber Eclipse and a Kimber Pro Eclipse. What is wrong with these dealers that when a guy comes in with $1,000+ cash money in his pocket that they will not order a rifle because they might loose a few dollars because of the "new" prices. At this point I would be happy to make up the differance. I found an FFL dealer listed on Gunsamerica that is near me that says he does transfers for $20-25. I gave him a call left a message and I am hopeing he will call back. My question is, what is wrong with these gundealers these days? How much money do I have to have to get a firearm ordered thats not stocked anywhere? Do I have to plead and beg? I am not a happy camper . I know there are quite a few FFL holder on this site. Tell me guys. What do I need to do or should I just give up trying to buy something that isn't in stock during the months of Dec, Jan, Feb. *rant over* Thanks guys I feel better already.

 

[Victor Romen]

As for the last dealer you went to not ordering the item, it is very possible that his distributor is not open on the weekends, so there is no sense in calling on a Saturday. Also you must realize that Service Rifle legal AR15's aren't exactly flying out the doors (lot of options and a small market), so most dealers won't stock them. Same principle applies to the dealers at gun shows. To stay in business dealers stock what they know they can sell.

So you won’t get it Wednesday and probably have to wait until Thursday. Is that huge? I once waited five months for a firearm (admittedly my fault). Be satisfied that it may only take an extra day, and that you are lucky enough to live in a state and country that you even have the option.

Not trying to flame you either, just looking at it from a different perspective.

The service you received at the first dealer you went to is below par. I work in retail and I can’t stand it when employees are talking to friends while customers are waiting. It is very unprofessional.

 

[Kodiaz]

Man I can't believe the stuff you guys post about problems with gunstores. I must be lucky or something.

 

[Soybomb]

I always preach pawnshops, they're happy to make $25 off a few minutes of work around here and don't get their feeling hurt.

 

[JohnBT]

If two young guys were working I'd guess the older guys were at Shot Show, a gun show or fishing. The young guys probably didn't even know who to call to place an order.

I was at my local, friendly, big gun store today and they were swamped with customers - not to busy to say hi, but busy. More than half the staff must have gone to Shot Show because I've never seen them that shorthanded in more than 30 years. They were trying to run the place with 6 or so guys in the gun department. Heck, might have been five.

I poked around in the floor racks for awhile but it was too crowded for comfort. I got a look at a nice Merkel double rifle, but decided to go back another day and look at the pricier Beretta and B. Rizzini O/U's they keep behind the counter. My big bankroll won't evaporate.

John

 

[taliv]

not to rain on your rant thread, but imho, your expectations are out of whack.

the best thing to do if you want a rifle like that, particularly a RRA which is notoriously out of stock with long lead times when you order, is to go to the RRA website, get their list of dealers, and start calling them to find it in stock somewhere. you may have to call half of them before you find it. then have it sent to your local store and give them a few extra bucks for doing the transfer.

maybe you haven't read the gunshow rant threads lately (or ever), but if you're going to a gunshow and expecting to find new $1000 guns in a particular make/model, you're about two decades too late.


bad service is bad service and those kids sound like knuckleheads, but even if they'd given you a lap dance, it wouldn't change the fact that they don't have one in stock, and as a dealer, if they'd ordered it that minute, it'd probably be months before it arrived.

there are better things to get in a lather about

 

[redloki]

Victor I took nothing you said as a flame, it was all well spoken. I do realize service rifles are not that popular in the AR-15 world at the moment. If they were I would have found them all over the place at the gunshow instead of all the tricked out M4 variants. The last time I went to the gunshow there I did not look at that many AR-15's, but I really didn't think I would basically find nothing. In retrospect, Most of the guns were gone from the first shop I went to. Good chances were that those guys had a booth at the gunshow and the boy were manning the shop. I still can't excuse their attitude. When I left there I had realized that I was not going to find anything sitting on any shelf that I would have been happy with no matter how many shops I went too. I could have kept it up all day. This was the reason I didn't stop anywhere else and just headed to my local dealer at home. Sam is a great guy. An ex-marine who has a gunshop inside his weldingshop. You would never know he had such an outstanding little shop in the middle of nowhere if you just drove by. He did what he could at the time and I know he will check into it. I will go talk to him monday afternoon to find out details and get him to order it if he hasen't already. I was being impatient at the time. The first match is just a little more than a month away and the internet chatter is that RRA is way behind on orders. I just wanted to get mine in as soon as possiable. I reached most of the same conclusions as you gentlemen did once I calmed down a bit. I just had money burning a hole in my pocket and didn't expect to come home empty handed. Like the saying goes, " A bad day fishing.." Today wasn't my lucky day, the fish just were not biting.

 

[redloki]

the best thing to do if you want a rifle like that, particularly a RRA which is notoriously out of stock with long lead times when you order, is to go to the RRA website, get their list of dealers, and start calling them to find it in stock somewhere.

If you read the first post again the shop that the boys were at is the one I got off the RRA website. It was the closest one to my location. I will take the advice of calling the rest of the Monday to see if one of them has it in stock before I head to Sam's to order it.

 

[taliv]

yep, i saw... that's why i said, as a dealer, they'll still take a while to get an order in.

i had to call quite a few RRA dealers before i got my last RRA AR15, and it wasn't even a hard-to-find model like an NM. I bought my RRA NM several years ago when they weren't quite so backlogged.

you'll get one; you'll just have to do some leg work

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Since ARs are modular, why not get an AR you can stick tacticool stuff on and just order a complete National Match upper from RRA?

 

[akodo]

I would suggest making clear to them that yes, you are aware that new prices are coming, and that it won't be a problem to pay the new price. Offer to pay 110% of the current price, with arrangements to get a refund or pay a little more, whatever the new price is (get this in writing so you get your money back when the price is only 105% of the old price). If they normally do a 10% price down payment on ordered firearms, offer to do 15% of the current price. (again get the dollar amount you are putting down in writing)

from what you said, you told US you were happy to make up the difference, but you never told them.

 

[hksw]

I was being impatient at the time. The first match is just a little more than a month away and the internet chatter is that RRA is way behind on orders. I just wanted to get mine in as soon as possiable. I reached most of the same conclusions as you gentlemen did once I calmed down a bit. I just had money burning a hole in my pocket and didn't expect to come home empty handed. Like the saying goes, " A bad day fishing.." Today wasn't my lucky day, the fish just were not biting.

Glad to see you've reviewed you intial emotions and adjusted.

I've found as I get older that boiling over when anything I want or want have done doesn't go as I expected or hoped for doesn't do anything other than increase my stress and ruin a good day thinking about it. Today, my mentality is, if things don't happen as I would have liked, oh well, there's always tomorrow. What's the rush? I've gone this far in life without what I'm looking for, a few more days won't kill me. The RRA will eventually be obtained and there will be other matches to compete in in the future. In short, learn to stay calm and controlled. It'll even help you out in the matches.

 

[Old Fuff]

redloki:

I understand your frustration, but a lot of things are happening at Las Vegas and the SHOT Show that might make a difference in what you deside. I suggest that you wait until your dealer(s) return and then go forward.

 

[Onmilo]

I have been working in Firearm stores for twenty five years.
Simply put, a store stocks what sells with a fast turn around and special orders items which do not move quickly.
Most decent shops will be more than happy to special order any firearm your heart may desire.
If the store does not wish to order an item for you, it is usually because they have had problems with the company you wish to purchase from and are trying to protect your best interests.
It does a buisiness no good to sell you a product special order, take your money and make you wait, knowing that you will probably not going to be satisfied with the product once you receive it.

 

[SIOP]

Let's see if I have this straight. You're pissed at your local FFL because two months ago you were in his shop, said you wanted to buy a rifle in a month or two, and then after you went to a gunshow and another shop to buy the gun that you told him you were interested in, he didn't have one waiting for you? He'd have had to been nuts to special order a rifle for you because you might be back in two months to buy it, assuming you couldn't get a better price at the gunshow or another shop. Guys like you are the reason FFL's won't special order stuff without cash up front. For every guy that actually buys a gun, there's probably 50 who tell you that they definitely want to buy and will be back with their money but never show.

 

[redloki]

SIOP,that is very true. I just had my nose in a wrinkle that day. I will go see him tomorrow with cash in hand. I should not have any problems then.

 

[airmonkey]

At my local small gun store that I have been frequenting since before I could purchase firearms the guy that runs the shop lets me back behind the counter to look at the high-ends and old classics without having to ask him to hand me every one that catches my eye and has never had a problem ordering me or any of the other regulars what ever special order firearm their heart desires. Must be tough having no customer oriented shops in your area.

 

[tg_26101]

As a small dealer, I can tell you RRA rifles don't come from distributors, they come directly from Rock River. RRA is difficult to contact, because they are very busy; if I don't call early in the morning, it takes many attempts and a long wait on hold to talk with anyone. They aren't open to contact on the weekend, and add to that the SHOT show was this week, and many people have been in Las Vegas for it.

I called RRA to place an order this week, and was told it would be 3-4 weeks (and past experience tells me it may very well be 6+ weeks, particularly right after the SHOT show) to have a rifle built. RRA's are very popular right now, and they don't have inventory to ship; orders are processed as they are received, and built as they get to your order.

I'm not attempting to excuse any lack of service you may have received, but you probably should have ordeered your rifle two months ago when you looked into it if you want it now. AR's in general are very popular right now, and lead times reflect that.

 

[AZ Jeff]

Since ARs are modular, why not get an AR you can stick tacticool stuff on and just order a complete National Match upper from RRA?

Because an AR set up for Service Rifle will also need a modified trigger set up for NM standards. These triggers CAN be placed into "regular" lower receivers, but if you go to that much trouble, why not buy the whole rifle ready to go?

 

[redloki]

AZJeff your post was right on target. If I had wanted one I could hang light, lasers, rocket launchers and thermonuclear warheads off of I would have bought on at the gunshow I attended this weekend. Not that those are not neat it's just what i was not looking for.

Since my last post Sunday night. I went to Sams monday after work. I asked him if he checked on the rifle and the price. He said no he had not but would call them. He picked up the phone and called. It was around 4:45pm central time. Seems that they were already closed. He also said they didn't have one in the book. I told him the A4 NM did exist and they were new for 2006. He left them a message to call him back Tuesday morning. I asked Sam if he wanted the money and just go ahead and order it. He said to just wait and see if they had the rifle, completely doubting everything I told him even though I told him it was listed on their website. I said ok and that I would come back tuesday afternoon. I arrived this afternoon and asked him if he had talked to RRA and he said he had not but made another note to himself to call them wednesday. I am starting to think I need to find a new dealer or am I being impatient? What do you guys think?

 

[aaronrkelly]

AZJeff your post was right on target. If I had wanted one I could hang light, lasers, rocket launchers and thermonuclear warheads off of I would have bought on at the gunshow I attended this weekend. Not that those are not neat it's just what i was not looking for.

Since my last post Sunday night. I went to Sams monday after work. I asked him if he checked on the rifle and the price. He said no he had not but would call them. He picked up the phone and called. It was around 4:45pm central time. Seems that they were already closed. He also said they didn't have one in the book. I told him the A4 NM did exist and they were new for 2006. He left them a message to call him back Tuesday morning. I asked Sam if he wanted the money and just go ahead and order it. He said to just wait and see if they had the rifle completely doubting everything i told him even though i told himit was listed on their website. I said ok and that I would come back tuesday afternoon. I arrived this afternoon and asked him if he had talked to RRA and he said not he didn't but made another note to himself to call them wednesday. I am starting to think I need to find a new dealer or am I being impatient? What do you guys think?

If you go in on Wednesday and he has not made the call:

"Sam, apparently you have no interest in ordering my rifle and taking my money, I will find someone that is"

He sounded like a good dealer until your last post - how hard is it to make a call Sam.....come on buddy, get it together.

Your not being impatient, I would have NEVER waitied 3 frickin days for an FFL to make a phone call - completely rediculous.

 

[dmftoy1]

FWIW I went through something similiar about this time last year. I wanted a A3 NM for Service Rifle Competition and it took over 3 months to get it. I have no doubt that the people I ordered it through put the order in right away it was just that they couldn't get it from RRA (they were way too busy). I was getting to the point where I almost cancelled the order but I 'm glad I didn't. Last weekend it put it's first 3 shots (at 100 yards) into a single cloverleaf hole!

Good luck!!

Have a good one,
Dave

 

[USMCRotrHed]

That story made me feel lucky!

I just happened to walk into my local gun shop monday and asked the beautiful lady behind the counter to order me a RRA NM A2. She immediately picked up the phone to her distributor and placed the order. I don't care if another store says they can beat that price or not. Customer service is worth something!

 

[redloki]

It seems I am such an efficent worker I was given the day off for being too far ahead of everyone else I work with. So, I will contact Sam earlier today instead of late in the day as I have been and make sure he calls. If I can't get him to do anything I will go to the guy I buy my powder and primers from. I may even get a little shooting in today after I get some coffee in me.

 

[MS .45]

I am fortunate when it comes to my local gunshop. The guys in there remind me every time I visit that they will order anything I want if it is not in stock. Very nice people and good businessmen.