Should I be Ticked Off?

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qman2

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I just purchased a used Rockchucker reload kit with some extras. All in all I got about $500-600 in retail prices worth of stuff for $300.

Now I find out about this Hornady Lock-N-Load AP deal that costs $377 and with it I could pump out rounds like crazy for a meer $77 bucks more.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why does the Rockchucker kit retail at $350 and this Hornady at $377?

And why in the world would anyone do each step by hand versus using the Hornady progressive deal?

Help me out fellas, I'm not even new to this stuff yet.
 
In addition to the press, you'll need everything listed here:
http://ultimatereloader.com/?page_id=332

As well as the following for each caliber:
- Dies
- Lock-N-Load bushings (one per die)
- Shellplate

Then subtract the value of the 500 free bullets from the press and 100 free bullets from the dies (for each set). (See http://www.hornady.com/promotions/get-loaded ) and you have your actual price.

I think the Hornady is a great deal- just make sure you add up all the stuff you'll need.
 
Forgot to ask what you're loading for- (rifle and pistol) as well as how mechanically inclined and patient you are :) That will influence what type of press you should start with regardless of cost.

Here's a writeup on the differences between single stage, turret, and progressive presses:
http://ultimatereloader.com/?page_id=199

And an article about how to decide what press to buy:
http://ultimatereloader.com/?page_id=305
 
What 'extras' did you get? You may be comparing apples to oranges. If the RCBS setup came with 4 sets of dies, a 1010 scale, powder measure on a stand, etc, then you probably did fine. That Hornady may have been stripped down or missing parts, which would cost significantly more to get you up and running.

Also, some people aren't looking for speed in re/hand-loading. Not that progressives produce inaccurate ammunition, but a single stage allows for increased quality control, allowing for you to observe every single round that is produced, and ensuring it is up to your standards, whatever that may be. Plus a SS is much easier to learn on. Progressives have too many moving parts. I think if I had started on a progressive I would've sold it about 1 day after buying it.

If you go look at the pictures of people's reloading set-ups elsewhere on THR, you'll notice most have at least one single stage, and for those who shoot semi-autos, a progressive. A single stage will always be useful.
 
Depends on what you want to do with it.

The RCBS RockChucker will handle any size or length rifle or pistol caliber from the .25 ACP up to the .460 Weatherby.

The Hornady L&L handles pistol ammo best, but will also do smaller rifle calibers well.
But it costs about $50 bucks for a new shell plate + a lot of time & adjustment fiddling to switch calibers, as oppsed to a few bucks for a different shell holder for the RCBS press.

The other thing is, for $377, all you get is the L&L AP press. You would have to spend a bunch more money to get all the other needed stuff you got with the RCBS kit price.

rc
 
Actually, the caliber changeover is not that bad. 10 minutes total for differing primer size changeovers and 5 minutes total for same primer size changeovers.

Also- here are current prices for LNL AP parts/components on midwayusa.com (45 ACP used for example)
- #45 shellplate: $27.49 (392645)
- LNL bushings (3): $12.99 (044093)
- 45 ACP 3 die set (Hornady): $40.99 (546554)

So it's not cheap, but at lest it's not $50 for a shellplate :)
 
Be that as it may.
It's still $40 bucks more then it costs to change calibers in a RockChucker.
(Assuming you buy Lee dies that include a shell holder)

rc
 
"This doesn't make sense to me. Why does the Rockchucker kit retail at $350 and this Hornady at $377?"

I've owned an RC for 20 years, I fell for the vastly over-rated, over priced "big green" hype too. Oh well, we live and learn don't we?
 
ranger, not followin ya. You're upset that you've owned an RC for 20 years. If so, then why haven't you changed? That's a long time to be upset.
---------------------------------
As for what I'll be reloading, rifle and pistol. I have 9mm Ruger and .357 mag handguns and 7mm mag, 30-06, .270 Win, and a .243 WSSM rifles.

Rarely shoot the handguns and my boys and I hunt with the rifles. I mostly want to reload my own stuff so I can afford to get my kids shooting a lot so they're safe when we're hunting.
---------------------------------
The kit only came with one set of dies, for a .308 and I don't have a .308. (anyone want to trade?) The extras were things like a hand primer dealie, some case lube, a rifle rest (Outfitters Varminter), a set of calipers, a powder trickler, and I can't remember exactly what else. Nothing special or large, just little things like that. But I did notice that little things like that aren't cheap.

My question was mostly to see what y'all's opinions were with respect to the progressive vs the manual.

UltimateReloader, in that article of what press to buy, it categorizes the 'price' for a progressive to be high and that for a single stage to be low. But $350 vs $377, I don't see a difference at all.

I mean, ya dies cost more, but both types need dies right?
 
rcmodel said:
Depends on what you want to do with it.

The RCBS RockChucker will handle any size or length rifle or pistol caliber from the .25 ACP up to the .460 Weatherby.

The Hornady L&L handles pistol ammo best, but will also do smaller rifle calibers well.
But it costs about $50 bucks for a new shell plate + a lot of time & adjustment fiddling to switch calibers, as oppsed to a few bucks for a different shell holder for the RCBS press.

The other thing is, for $377, all you get is the L&L AP press. You would have to spend a bunch more money to get all the other needed stuff you got with the RCBS kit price.

rc
Click to expand...
Exactly what stuff rc?
 
gman2:
The rockchucker kit has everything you need except dies, is that right?

With the progressive, you need the press, dies, shellplate(s), toolheads/bushings, scale, bullet puller, loading manual, ...

So the progressive will end up costing more. Does that make sense?
 
I just purchased a used Rockchucker reload kit with some extras. All in all I got about $500-600 in retail prices worth of stuff for $300.
Click to expand...

What extra's ??? please list everything so that we can give a fair opinion.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why does the Rockchucker kit retail at $350 and this Hornady at $377?
Click to expand...

The price of the kit includes other essentials. The Hornady @ $377.00 is only the press.

And why in the world would anyone do each step by hand versus using the Hornady progressive deal?
Click to expand...

Batch process is done by quite a few handloaders out there. I suggest all beginners start by learning each step versus progressive - My opinion only.

All in all, it is what it is.

LGB
 
UltimateReloader said:
gman2:
The rockchucker kit has everything you need except dies, is that right?

With the progressive, you need the press, dies, shellplate(s), toolheads/bushings, scale, bullet puller, loading manual, ...

So the progressive will end up costing more. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...
I believe it has everything (no dies though.) It had everything in the RCBS Rockchucker Supreme Kit that you can find everywhere. I'm not even a beginner yet so I'm gonna go by that and the guy I bought it from told me that was everything.

OK then, maybe I'm now getting it. With the RCBS "kit", I get a kit and am ready to go. With the Hornady press, that's only the beginning. Got it Ultimate, thanks.

Thanks too lgb, and everyone else who piped in. I've been meaning to list the extras but haven't had time. But like I said earlier. Nothing special. All were small items but when I get online I notice that all these things cost some serious cash.
 
Since you are new to reloading qman2, I would not recommend a LnL AP for your first press anyway. Starting with a good quality singe stage like the kit you purchased will allow you to learn the steps necessary at a pace that is not too overwhelming for you to load good quality & safe ammo.
Getting in too much of a hurry with limited experience on a progressive may result in less than desired results.
For the rifle cartridges you mention, the Rockchucker will serve you better that the LnL.

Many of us who began reloading on the same press you have and later started using a progressive, still keep the single stage setup and ready to go. I use mine to full length resize 40 S&W and 10mm with a Redding GRx. Something that cannot be done on a progressive. And sometimes I just want to load 50 rounds nice and slow. Nothing wrong with that.
Sounds like you got a fair deal on equipment that will last a lifetime.

Let us know after you've loaded your first batch of ammo.
 
That first $20-30 difference isn't going to mean anything once you add the other $1K that you will 'need' after you get hooked on this hobby. :)

Personally, I have never felt the need for a progressive. I load 2K rounds per year but none for my auto pistols.
 
When I first got into reloading I looked at the RC as the "standard"... and couldn't justify the price difference over the Partner. I still use the partner, and it turns out better-than-match grade ammo with the proper prep work. However, I've also added a Dillon 550 and a Lee progressive.

Basically, I got sucked into the RCBS/John Deere green envy...but its gone and paid for now!
 
Make sure you compare apples with apples. Comparing a single stage press "kit" with a progressive press alone is not a fair comparison. For instance, the Hornady single stage press runs about $110. The hit runs about $300. The progressive press runs about $375. I have both the single stage kit and the progressive. If you buy all the parts separately they tend to cost more than the kits by a fair amount. I got the progressive first and answer up getting the kit due to costs of the individual parts.
 
"ranger, not followin ya. You're upset that you've owned an RC for 20 years. If so, then why haven't you changed? That's a long time to be upset."

Gman, your trying to follow where I didn't go by reading more into what I wrote than was there. I'm not "upset" at all, my RC press works. (Well, except for the really lousy spent primer catcher design.) But, after all these years I can assure anyone that an RC works no better than any other press in its design class; Lyman, Redding, Hornady, Lee, etc., but it was quite costly compaired to the others. And that was before Lee made the excellant Classic Cast at an even lower cost. Today, so far as I know, ONLY Lee machines the important surfaces of their presses - all of them - on modern CNC machinery so they are quite precisely made too.

I used to do a lot of massive case reforming. I really needed a strong press so I got the RC based on its reputation. It works okay so I continue to use it - it IS paid for! But I KNOW the Lee CC is the "better" press, meaning it's has even more over-kill strength, especially so for anyone buying new, and even disregarding the nice price difference. Lee didn't start making their more massive Classic Cast (it's cast steel and not made in China with cheaper/weaker cast iron) single stage until some 12-15 years after I got my RC 2.

(I 'fixed' my RC's poor primer handling system many years back by getting two little Lee "Reloader" presses, put a universal decapper in one and an Auto Prime II in the other. Love that.)
 
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For those large caliber rifles, I would stick with the RC. I have their Jr. press - have had it for over 30 years and have loaded everything from 32ACP to &mm Mag with no issues.

Too many folks today are more interested in loading as many as they can, not in loading the best that they can. You have a lot more control, especially for rifle loads, when you do it step by step. For my rifles, every charge gets weighed and trickled to be exactly the same, every bullet gets started and seated exactly the same. I'm no Annie Oakley, but I do my best to make sure my ammo is the best it can be for the gun it's being shot in
 
I've been reloading for a couple decades now, first on an RCBS Jr., then with a rockchucker. I don't shoot particularly high volume, and I carefully inspect everything at each step of the process. You develop your own process over time, and can load a lot of ammo.

I had a Dillon 550 progressive for a while. A friend wanted to sell it to me so he encouraged me to try it out, get used to it, see how it worked for me.

I know a lot of folks load a lot off ammo on them with excellent results, but having loaded single stage for so long, I just didn't like it. I did get a rhythm going and loaded a pile of rounds quick, but I just plain didn't like it. I didn't feel as confident in my ammo and got frustrated with the idiosyncrasies of the loader. It cured me from ever wanting a progressive press.

That's just me though. Lots of others love them, and look down their noses as us poor, stupid, blockheads plugging away with single stage presses. To each their own, I guess.

I don't shoot enough volume to warrant one, and I like the control over every step with the single stage. Personally I like my rockchucker press, but then again I've never bought a new press, think I paid $50 for it used.
The kit only came with one set of dies, for a .308 and I don't have a .308. (anyone want to trade?) The extras were things like a hand primer dealie, some case lube, a rifle rest (Outfitters Varminter), a set of calipers, a powder trickler, and I can't remember exactly what else. Nothing special or large, just little things like that. But I did notice that little things like that aren't cheap.
Click to expand...

$300 seems awful steep if you didn't at least get a good scale and powder measure with it. Especially for used equipment.
 
Ah come on guys...Let's bad mouth Lee presses for a while. I sure don't want my Lee presses left out of this "fine" thread. Both my cast iron single stage press and my cast iron turret do the J-O-B just fine, but, please, feel free to go at'em...
 
Starting off with a single stage press is like learning to hunt Rabbits with a single shot shotgun,,, you pay a lot of attention to detail and get pretty damn good at what you are doing and THEN you move up to an autoloader,,,
 
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