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Should I Buy a Sleeved/Lined Shotgun?

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Jessesky, May 17, 2019.

  1. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    There is a beautiful London double I am interested in. Aesthetically it is fantastic. Internally it is tight and crisp.

    The barrels have been lined professionally. Even so, what are your thoughts on lined barrels? Would this stop you from buying? Why?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  2. jaguarxk120

    jaguarxk120 Member

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    Lining barrels that have become too thin to pass proof testing is a standard practice
    for English gun makers. By installing modern steel liners to older barrels gives you the
    finish of the older steel and the ability to shoot nitro loads.
    If you want it - buy it!! These guns don't grow on tree's.
     
  3. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    Ive heard if affects balance making them much more heavy forward. Is there a chance of the lining delaminating if it gets hot? Say on a clays course, Or am I being paranoid
     
  4. jaguarxk120

    jaguarxk120 Member

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    As far as balance go's --Don't know. How does the gun handle for you?

    The English shoot driven birds and the shooting is much faster than what's on a clays course .

    Is there a number on the top strap or the opening lever? Many times those guns were made in pairs.
    when shooting the shooter handed the fired gun to a loader and the loader handed a loaded gun to the shooter.
    Very fast shooting.

    I don't think liners coming loose would be a problem.
     
  5. Virginian

    Virginian Member

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    Unless they used VERY dissimilar steel for the liners, the odds of them separating are extremely slim. As a rule the more modern steels would tend to have a greater coefficient of expansion, but the differences and dimensions are so small in this case as to be infinitesimal. If it looks good and feels good and I wanted it, I would get it.
     
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  6. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    The usual English sleeving job uses the original barrel breech as a monobloc with all new barrels inserted. If care is taken to make the new tubes the same profile as the original, there will be no change in weight or balance. As to durability, the monobloc construction works just fine for major Italian brands like Beretta and Perazzi.

    http://www.woodcockhill.com/work.htm
    BARRELS SLEEVED* If you have a valuable shotgun which has barrels that are damaged beyond repair it is still possible to send your gun to England, have the old damaged tubes removed and new barrel tubes fitted. This process is called sleeving, the old tubes are completely removed and new tubes fitted and proof tested either at the London or Birmingham Proof House. You are furnished with a Certificate of Proof from the Proof House ensuring the safety of your gun... By the job + shipping.
    * Our sleeving is all done in England and complies with English Proof laws. You may rest safely that your gun is in PROOF; furnished with Certificate of Proof from Birmingham or London Proof House.

    It is also possible to put in a full length liner, reducing the bore by a gauge. This keeps the original appearance of something like fancy Damascus but will add weight.
    One post at shotgunworld.com says it is even possible to line one back to the original gauge.
    Long discussion at https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=215348
    Another Britisher says it didn't work well.
    https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/articles/technical/barrel-lining/
     
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  7. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Id go for it
     
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  8. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    This would be my third side by side, to accompany my Schmidt and Habermann, and my D.B. Crockart. Each get out once or twice a year, and my volume shooting is with my 686 onyx. I’m more concerned about the wrist on the Scottish D.B. Crockart. So won’t be shooting them a ton, but they will get somewhat hot.
     
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  9. desidog

    desidog Member

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    I'm not saying don't buy it, but, for what it's worth, most people shoot clays better with an O/U than a SxS.
     
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  10. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    Absolutely, so do I. But when I use the double it’s more than about doing well for me. It’s the same reason I like shooting milsurps.
     
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  11. jaguarxk120

    jaguarxk120 Member

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    Your not shooting super magnum loads through those fine
    old English guns. Standard loading work just fine.
     
  12. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    Well, I caved.

    I called up the shop and it’s mine! The gun in question is a W.J. Jefferey & Co London box lock.

    You guys are a terrible influence on my wallet. Looking forward to posting pics
     
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  13. George P

    George P Member

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    Not true at all, the only area that gets "sleeved" is the chamber area where the pressures are greater
     
  14. jaguarxk120

    jaguarxk120 Member

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    At what price is the shop letting you take this gun home?
     
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  15. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    I’d be curious as to what you think it’s worth. To see if I got a reasonable deal that is. I’m no expert in doubles yet, just an enthusiast.
     
  16. jaguarxk120

    jaguarxk120 Member

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    I use Guns International as a guide line. The vendor's there list what they want
    for a item. With English guns it all depends on condition. The English have no hang-ups
    about condition we do, if a gun or rifle is starting to look shabby, it is sent off
    to the maker for a refinish.

    Not seeing the gun a SWAG would be anything under $5 k is a good deal.
    That is from looking at what is listed in Guns International right now.

    I have no hang ups about refinishing any gun. Right now one of my nicest Ithaca
    Model 37's (20 Gauge) from 1939 has had it's last refinish. When I bought it,
    it had cold blue finish on it. Now it looks as it came off the rack new.
    I love shooting it.
     
  17. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    At long last it has arrived! I feel confident with the sleeve job. The seller said it was done at a shop in England and then imported here. This is from when WJ Jeffery was at 13 king street, St.James, London. Here are a bunch of photos.
    2F7B8219-7E27-4F68-A3ED-8548A040590E.jpeg
    D3F958CD-CDBB-4528-A44E-83010D5CC587.jpeg
    8DC803E0-B3BC-4C65-8610-6E1364759510.jpeg 2F357463-8A58-4629-A02B-0AF0653EB25D.jpeg 9BDE15AF-CF1D-4056-9779-FC3B8AC4A35F.jpeg
    C8B944AC-EA71-4312-9BE5-CE575899068B.jpeg A92FDC0E-0404-4A1B-9B5D-F15C0560E936.jpeg
     
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  18. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    $1200 but there are some nicks here and there
     
  19. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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  20. jaguarxk120

    jaguarxk120 Member

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    Very nice, you did very well. Now take it out and enjoy it.
     
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  21. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Pretty.
    Show us the muzzle and breech ends of the barrel and let us search for the sleeves.
     
  22. gunsmither

    gunsmither Member

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    You can see the faint line of the sleeve joint in the 3rd photo, about 4-5" forward from the breech. Nice old double. Cangrats Jessesky!
     
  23. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Demned faint line, farther forrard than I expected from guns built on monobloc.
    Good work and a nice Jeffrey.
     
  24. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    For me, shotguns come under the heading of serious business and that's their only relevance - but I'm very glad I read this thread...

    Congratulations on a fine old gun - and I just learned a bit that I never knew existed until I read this.... Thanks.
     
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  25. gunsmither

    gunsmither Member

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    I've only seen one sleeved double for real. It was a magnificent Hi Grade Lefever that had "Sleeved by Westley Richards" tastefully engraved on the barrels in gold filled lettering. A customer brought it to my shop to show it to me. He had sent it to England to be sleeved, and refinished, Just like in Jessesky's 3rd photo, you could barely tell where the joint line was, and that's why I knew where to look. It cost him a lot of dough as I recall.
     
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