Should I buy a ZT?

[CopperFouling]

I've been saving my coins ($118.71, and I am not kidding ) for four months, and I am going to purchase an EDC folder in the $150 to $250 range.

I am thinking a Zero Tolerance 0562CF after handing another ZT in a store on Sunday and feeling quite impressed with it. Does anyone here have experiences, good or bad, with ZT in general or that model in particular?

If you have other suggestions that I might consider as well, I am looking for something made in the United States, Japan, or Europe with premium blade steel (S35VN, CTS 204P, M390, S90V, etc.) that carries well.

Thanks!

 

[ugaarguy]

If you want the 0562CF buy it now. The ones that are currently available are only the second run ZT has made since the knife was announced a year and a half ago at SHOT. If you end up not liking it you should be able to easily sell it at little to no loss because of the limited availability. The standard 0562 has been much more available, so don't rush to buy it.

 

[onelastshot]

If your income and budget requires 4 months of savings to purchase a folding knife, I suggest purchasing one at the lower price range scale. When income is limited to the extent that it takes a quarter of a year to save enough money for a discretionary item, I tend to chose a conservative option.

 

[50 Shooter]

Does it have to be a ZT?

Why not look at the regular Kershaw line up, they also offer the same style knife (Hindered). Probably cost you half or less then the ZT model, check Amazon or eBay for one as they usually have the best prices.

 

[ugaarguy]

Now that I've quickly told you to buy the ZT0562CF and why to buy it, I can be long winded and address your questions about ZT.

I've carried a ZT0801 for about a year now.

The Bad:

- The handles are pretty thick since the pivot area has to house the caged ball bearing washers. Since the blade is relatively thick I wish ZT would've put the bearing tracks into the blade to thin down the handles and thereby significantly reduce the weight.

- The pivot on the 0562 is the same as on the 0801 and the female side is not restrained in the handle (the entire assembled pivot can spin in the handle independent of the blade), and these pivots are known for coming loose. I've been able to remedy the issue with blue Loctite, some folks report having to use brown loctite, or even superglue the female side of the pivot into its recess in the handle.

- Elmax blade steel isn't hard to sharpen with diamond stones, but it isn't easy either.

The Good:

- Elmax blade steel holds an edge for a REALLY long time. This knife has opened all my mail and packages for a year. It's only been out of my pocket for a day or two at a time during sporadic tests of economy knives. I've sharpened twice. It's due for a touch up now, but it'll still shave hair off my arm.

- If I cleaned it up you'd be hard pressed to tell I've carried it, so the materials and their finishes are extremely durable.

- The ball bearing pivot flipper opening is smooth, fast, and fun. It's well worth the thickness trade off to me.

- ZT customer service is outstanding. The 0801 comes with black hardware, and I thought silver / plain polished stainless would look better with matte gray Ti frame. I filled out a parts request form on the KAI USA / ZT website and stated in the notes that I wanted to buy a spare set of hardware from them to refinish myself. Their response was to send me the hardware I wanted at no cost - they even paid the shipping - and they even threw in a spare set of ball bearing pivot washers.

So, after a year of carrying a ZT 0801 what's my verdict? I miss the ease of sharpening S30V/35VN, the shaving sharp yet still toothy edge S30/35 takes, and I miss how slicey Spyderco's full flat ground blades are. However, as I've noted here on THR several times, I've had the worst luck with Spyderco clip screws that have to go through synthetic handle scales and screw into metal liners.

With the last paragraph in mind, I almost bought a Spyderco Domino this weekend. The clip screws directly into the Ti frame scale, so that should alleviate any clip screw problems. But I didn't buy a Domino because the blade is CTS-XHP, what Spyderco calls a laminated CF handle is marketing speak for a G10 slab with a CF veneer, and, despite being imported from a country whose minimum wage is less than the equivalent of $4 per hour, the knife still sells online for nearly $200.

I can't make it to Blade this year, but I've asked hso to keep his eyes peeled for something mass produced that's like a Domino, but made in USA and with an S30V, S35VN, M390, or CTS-204P blade. In the meantime I've hedged my bets by going ahead and ordering a ZT 0562CF while I can. If hso finds something closer to my ideal I can turn the 0562CF quickly and easily. The 0562CF is nearly the same price as the Domino, but as you know all ZT knives are made here in the USA. All the sharpening gurus say that M390/CTS-204P sharpens easily and takes a toothy edge like S30/35. (M390 and CTS-204P are the same steel with the former being made by Bohler in Germany and the latter being made by Carpenter here in the USA.) The Hinderer slicer grind should be close enough to a Spyderco FFG. If I have to throw some thread locker and/or adhesive on the pivot to keep it in place I can deal with correcting that one flaw in order to have a USA made knife with almost all the other features I want.

BUT - That only tells you what I like, with some background that will hopefully help you to evaluate in more detail what you like and why you like it. What are your three favorite knives that you currently own? What do you like and dislike about each? What do you want this high end folder to do? How long or short of a blade do you want? Is weight a concern? Is flipper opening a must, or do you also like conventional methods like holes and thumb studs? If you can tell us these things it'll help us to give you more targeted recommendations.

 

[hso]

Scarce ZTs do very well in the aftermarket arena as long as you treat the knife very well and keep every single bit of packaging and other fluff with it. If you don't like the feel of it you won't have any trouble selling a "carried, never used" one.

 

[CopperFouling]

If you want the 0562CF buy it now. The ones that are currently available are only the second run ZT has made since the knife was announced a year and a half ago at SHOT. If you end up not liking it you should be able to easily sell it at little to no loss because of the limited availability. The standard 0562 has been much more available, so don't rush to buy it.

I did not know that. Thanks. Might have to drive to my local (semi-local, really) knife shop on Thursday.

If your income and budget requires 4 months of savings to purchase a folding knife, I suggest purchasing one at the lower price range scale. When income is limited to the extent that it takes a quarter of a year to save enough money for a discretionary item, I tend to chose a conservative option.

I must have been unclear. That change was just a little something extra to add to some money that I make on the side. My wife and I are mostly frugal, but she lets me spend money from my very small business on shooting / fishing / hunting gear.

The pivot on the 0562 is the same as on the 0801 and the female side is not restrained in the handle (the entire assembled pivot can spin in the handle independent of the blade), and these pivots are known for coming loose. I've been able to remedy the issue with blue Loctite, some folks report having to use brown loctite, or even superglue the female side of the pivot into its recess in the handle.

I assume that requires taking the knife apart. Is that difficult, or does it require specialized tools? Thanks for the extensive post, by the way. It's really informative.

What are your three favorite knives that you currently own? What do you like and dislike about each? Is flipper opening a must, or do you also like conventional methods like holes and thumb studs? If you can tell us these things it'll help us to give you more targeted recommendations.

I really have only owned the Benchmade 950 (most of my knives are fixed blades). The 950 is a fine knife, but I don't find opening it with one hand intuitive. So a flipper isn't necessarily a requirement, but the ZT that I flipped open this past weekend was...impressive. I could see maybe an assisted blade, too.

What do you want this high end folder to do?

My Benchmade has been used for a variety of different tasks. I've used it to gut rainbow trout and to slice through plastic packaging and those plastic ties that toy companies use to irritate parents of small children. I've used it to feather sticks, to make shavings to use to start a fire, and to slice paracord. Honestly, I really want something that holds an edge for a long time and doesn't rust easily. I spend a lot of time outdoors, in all sorts of weather.

How long or short of a blade do you want?

Under four inches. I would say more than 2.5 inches, though, so somewhere in between.

Is weight a concern?

Well...maybe. I'm more concerned the blade steel and country of origin. I wouldn't say it's unimportant, though.

I've looked through the Spyderco catalog, too, but I'm having aesthetic issues with the hole.

 

[ugaarguy]

I assume that requires taking the knife apart. Is that difficult, or does it require specialized tools?

It only requires two Torx T8 bits, one for each side of the pivot, and a Torx T6 bit (possibly two) to remove the handle screws. It's not hard at all if you're even a tiny bit mechanically inclined.

I really have only owned the Benchmade 950 (most of my knives are fixed blades). The 950 is a fine knife, but I don't find opening it with one hand intuitive. So a flipper isn't necessarily a requirement, but the ZT that I flipped open this past weekend was...impressive. I could see maybe an assisted blade, too.

Okay, so you're used 4.8 oz. folder with a 3&5/8" blade. The 950 is a nice knife, but I can see how its tiny thumb studs that sit right against the handle when closed would make it difficult to open. The 0562 isn't much bigger, and it's only 0.7 ounce heavier, so you shouldn't have any issues with the size and weight.

I've looked through the Spyderco catalog, too, but I'm having aesthetic issues with the hole.

The hole takes some getting used to, but it really does make opening a folder very easy, even with gloves on.

The other thought that occurs to me is to suggest you buy two or three entry level folders in different styles from the bigger brands and see what you like. Perhaps go ahead and get the 0562CF and keep it unused in case you want to sell or trade it for something else. Then, go to Amazon and get a Spyderco Byrd Meadowlark for $25 to try a 3" blade length, blade hole opener; get a Kershaw Strobe there for $33 to try a bigger blade knife with ball bearing flipper opening. Maybe add a Kershaw Cryo G10 for $30 to have a spring assisted knife in the mix. I think those three would be a good mix of styles and features to help you figure out exactly what you want in a higher end knife. They're also all quality knives that you can toss in vehicle glove boxes, emergency bags, or tackle boxes when you're done evaluating.

 

[CopperFouling]

The other thought that occurs to me is to suggest you buy two or three entry level folders in different styles from the bigger brands and see what you like. Perhaps go ahead and get the 0562CF and keep it unused in case you want to sell or trade it for something else. Then, go to Amazon and get a Spyderco Byrd Meadowlark for $25 to try a 3" blade length, blade hole opener; get a Kershaw Strobe there for $33 to try a bigger blade knife with ball bearing flipper opening. Maybe add a Kershaw Cryo G10 for $30 to have a spring assisted knife in the mix. I think those three would be a good mix of styles and features to help you figure out exactly what you want in a higher end knife. They're also all quality knives that you can toss in vehicle glove boxes, emergency bags, or tackle boxes when you're done evaluating.

I like that idea. Thanks.

 

[22-rimfire]

I have a ZT 0770CF and like it a lot. The 0562CF is a similar kind of knife as I recall.

If you are new to the knife world, I suggest you take baby steps and learn what you like. You seem to want an assisted opening knife.

One of my favorites has been the Spyderco Delica or larger cousin the Endura which are not assisted, but opens easily and one handed if you choose to. I just seldom choose to. Best to handle one in person.

 

[JShirley]

Kershaw makes terrific knives for their price point.

Personally, I love the Spyderco Manix 2 series of knives for easy opening, strength, and comfort. The two issues with them: the caged BB lock may take a little adjusting for some people; G10 scales can eat nice pants (I carry the Manix 2 LW [not G10], when not in uniform, so this isn't a problem).

John

 

[Pilot]

Yes! Buy the ZTC 0562CF NOW! Excellent knives. You won't regret it.

 

[ugaarguy]

I'm two days into ownership of the 0562CF and despite being a jaded knife nut I'm actually pretty darn impressed.

 

[Blade First]

Most days I carry a 0350TS...have owned it for a couple of years now and consider it one of the best knife purchases I've ever made. It stays shaving sharp with rare touchups and is as tight as the day it came out of the box. Thin enough and light enough to carry easily. A lot of knife for the money...

 

[JShirley]

The OP didn't say he was in college, nor claim financial difficulty, just a budget. You may be confused.

 

[CopperFouling]

I'm two days into ownership of the 0562CF and despite being a jaded knife nut I'm actually pretty darn impressed.

Cool! Is there much of a difference between the carbon fiber model and the ones with G10 handles?

I was going to drive over to my local shop on Saturday but was diverted. I think I'm going to look at them this next weekend.

 

[CopperFouling]

Kershaw makes terrific knives for their price point.

Personally, I love the Spyderco Manix 2 series of knives for easy opening, strength, and comfort. The two issues with them: the caged BB lock may take a little adjusting for some people; G10 scales can eat nice pants (I carry the Manix 2 LW [not G10], when not in uniform, so this isn't a problem).

John

I'm going to compare some Spyderco knives to the ZTs. I'd like to see just how large some of them are (e.g. the Para Military 2 or the Native).

 

[ugaarguy]

Is there much of a difference between the carbon fiber model and the ones with G10 handles?

Unless you're doing a controlled test to measure the number of cuts you get out of the knife until the edge dulls to some measurable level, you won't know the difference in steel. So, for everyday use, you won't be able to tell the difference in the steels (Elmax vs 204P). In sharpening Elmax definitely takes longer than S30V/S35VN. Everything I've read and watched indicates that M390/204P is nearly as easy to sharpen as S30/35, but unless I do a rigorous cutting test with my 0562CF it'll be several months before I know. You can touch up Elmax free hand on a diamond stone, but S30/35 are far easier to touch up free hand in my experience.

So, other than the $40 price difference and the pretty CF handle you shouldn't notice a difference in the two versions of the 0562 until it's time to sharpen. That said, I'd still invest in a guided sharpening system with diamond abrasives (starting at $50 for the DMT aligner) for any knife with a modern high alloy steel blade.

 

[CopperFouling]

So, other than the $40 price difference and the pretty CF handle you shouldn't notice a difference in the two versions of the 0562 until it's time to sharpen. That said, I'd still invest in a guided sharpening system with diamond abrasives (starting at $50 for the DMT aligner) for any knife with a modern high alloy steel blade.

I have a Wicked Edge, actually. I'm still learning to use it, though. Thanks for the comparison.

 

[ugaarguy]

JH, if you see this before you go knife shopping tomorrow keep in mind that because of price controls ZT folders bottom out at $140. The US made Kershaws like the Blur with optional S30V blade, Camber (S30V blade standard) are much more apples to apples with the Native 5 and the standard Manix. The Elmax blade limited run of the Knockout is the closest Kershaw peer to the Para 2, and the standard 14C28N blade Knockout is the closest comparison to the lightweight Manix. Because KAI doesn't have price controls on the Kershaw line even US made knives under that brand can often be found at substantial discounts.

 

[TimboKhan]

My general attitude is buy what you want, so with that said let me indulge my curious side...

Whats the planned use? Hard, occasional, pocket jewelry...???

If its not a hard use knife, my personal opinion is that you can buy an awful lot of very nice knives that generally feature the things you want for less. For example, I own a Buck Vantage in S30V that is really nice and it didn't cost me anywhere near what a ZT would. I certainly could use it hard, but I don't. Actually, I don't even really carry it all that often. My two favorite knives, neither of which is traditionally considered a "hard use" knife, are the Spyderco Endura and the Kershaw Blur, both of which are well under your budget and both of which have served me well during moderate use (and occasionaly hard use) for a long time now.

As John Shirley said, the Manix is an awfully nice option as well, and is what I would consider more of a hard use knife. I actually got one from him, and I carry it regularly and happily. I personally feel that the locking mechanism on that knife (similar to the Axis lock on the Benchmade) is about as safe as it gets. For my hard use purposes, I look no further.

When I say hard use, for me that means dirt and mud and occasionally blood and metal. My hard use is pretty rough, but I am not an oil field worker or something so its not as tough as it could be, I am also pretty careful not to use my knives as pry bars or whatever, but on occasion I have had to do just that. The Manix would be my choice for that, I guess, but all three have done that and survived. My Endura has actually survived many years of being my go-to knife. I am not such a fan of the lock, but I try and use it safely (by which I assume NO lock) and I have never had a problem with it. It is still pretty tight, even.

Honestly, my opinion is that you really can't go wrong with any Spyderco product, regardless of your intended use. I imagine that is true with a lot of companies, but Spyderco has always proven to be the quality choice for me. I even have one of their "cheapo" knives (Tenacious) and I carry it regularly. Actually, I like that knife better than a good number of far more expensive knives to be honest. The now discontinued Spyderco Kiwi (not the Kiwi III of whatever, but the 20 dollar stainless Kiwi that you can still find online) is my daily carry office knife, so they really run the gamut in terms of what they offer and what I use. Kershaw runs a second place for me, because I think they make decent stuff at a decent price, but at the end of the day if I could only buy from one company, it would be Spyderco.

 

[Valkman]

I am also pretty careful not to use my knives as pry bars or whatever, but on occasion I have had to do just that.

Just use a fixed blade that I made for that!

 

[jeepnik]

Do you want a ZT? The answer to that question is obviously yes, or you wouldn't have brought it up.

 

[CopperFouling]

Well, I took a trip to the shop today. I handled about a dozen knives, mostly Spydercos and ZTs. It turns out that the 0562 is larger than I anticipated, and I really liked the 0566, which is slightly smaller.

My general attitude is buy what you want, so with that said let me indulge my curious side...

Whats the planned use? Hard, occasional, pocket jewelry...???

... Honestly, my opinion is that you really can't go wrong with any Spyderco product, regardless of your intended use.

To be honest, I don't tend to abuse my folding knives too much. (I have beaten up some of my fixed blades, though.) I just like having a folding knife on me when I find that a box needs slicing or a fish needs gutting or a rabbit needs cleaning.

I did look at the Spydercos. I liked the Native considerably of the four or five that I handled.

It's eventually going to be either a 0566 (at $144) or the Native (at $131). I am going to order some of the cheaper versions (Kershaw and Byrd) that people have mentioned here first and see what I think.

 

[CZ9shooter]

I own knives from most of the big names, but I have yet to own a ZT. I like many of their designs. But since there are no dealers around here I just have to check out specs online. The specs are always appealing, except for one... the weight.

I like my knives to accompany me in my pocket all day. The only "heavy" knife I have right now is a Cryo2. I carried it for a while then retired it to my tool box at work. Because I dont like it that much, and it is relatively inexpensive, I now use it only for though tasks that I dont want to put my nicer carry knives through. The ZT's that I have been interested in are comparable in weight to that Cryo2. Not for me.

If you need a quality heavy duty knife, I am sure that a ZT is the ticket. I do want at least one to add to my collection. I just havent found one I like enough yet.