Should I get an Over Under?

[Jamison]

I'm making my first shotgun purchase and I was hoping to get some advice. My previous shotgun was a 16 gauge pump that was a gift from my father. Unfortunately it was stolen, so I need to get a new gun.

What I'll be using it for:
I'll be using it for bird hunting, mainly pheasant. I'll also shoot some clay pidgeons from time to time. I usually hunt with my family and they all have remington or browning pumps or autoloaders. I've always really liked the looks of over unders and I also want something different. I really like that they are easy to clean and I like the traditional simplicity of these guns. I've only done a minimal amount of looking(all on the internet) but it seems that I'm going to be paying a large premium for one of these guns over say a 870. I came across a company called spartan gunworks which looks to be owned by Remington, they sell over unders for about the max amount of money I was looking to spend ($500). I've always been one to splurge a little to get a quality item, are these guns not quality? Can anyone recommend a quality brand that won't break the bank? I'm open to used guns as long as they have been well maintained... where should I look, and is it even worth it to buy used? Should I wait until I can afford the $1500-2000 to buy an over under and just get a pump now? Is there anyway I can get a overunder with a bird hunting scene engraved on it for a decent price?

Thanks for any and all help,
Jamison

 

[berettashotgun]

YES you should get an O/U. Get Beretta or browning- minumun. Get used for under $800 if possible; and make sure the barrels have threads for chokes- it'll be your favorite. Unless you quail hunt with some of my bunch- they think you are supposed to shoot every shell:banghead:

 

[Starter52]

Remington is now importing O/U shotguns from Turkey and using the "Spartan" name so shooters won't confuse them with the top quality USA-made O/U Remingtons.

I've handled the Spartan O/U guns at Gander Mountain and they are decent-looking, stiff-actioned (all lower-priced O/U are) and will probably work OK, since Turkey makes decent shotguns for Europe. The Spartans cost $100+ more than Remington's best glossy-finished 870 Wingmaster. They're also more expensive than a good used 1100.

I would never consider buying a plain-Jane Spartan, not when a super-slick 870 or a proven 1100 was available. Sorry, but you simply cannot get a good quality O/U for $500, not even a used one (unless you get very lucky), but $500 will buy you a great Remington, Browning or (used) Ithaca shotgun with change left over.

 

[Jamison]

The Spartans cost $100+ more than Remington's best glossy-finished 870 Wingmaster. They're also more expensive than a good used 1100.

I would never consider buying a plain-Jane Spartan, not when a super-slick 870 or a proven 1100 was available. Sorry, but you simply cannot get a good quality O/U for $500, not even a used one (unless you get very lucky), but $500 will buy you a great Remington, Browning or (used) Ithaca shotgun with change left over.

I figured as much, I guess I'll just see if I can find a deal on a used gun, I don't want a gun made in turkey, anyone have any good resources for used guns? I just went on remington's website and it has wingmasters at $645. Is that what you were referring to? That is about twice the price of the express... what am I paying all that extra $ for?

 

[ArmedBear]

Spartans are not Turkish. They are Baikals (Izhmash) from Russia. Built like tanks. Ugly, rough, but very durable.

Turkish guns can be exceptional. CZ now imports Huglus and they are very nice.

Berettas are very nice but pricey; worth the money, though. The Browning Citori 12 gauge is not worth the money. The Cynergy is. None of them are in your price range. Brownings are Japanese AFAIK.

New Winchesters in my experience (Belgian) are nice, though others disagree. They are not cheap, but cheaper than the Brownings, and handle a lot nicer than Citoris!

The only US-made guns are Rugers and Remingtons (and some high-end low-production guns you won't be buying). Ruger O/U is good for pheasant hunting and IMO and the opinion of other trapshooters, not much else. Very well made, Ruger tough, sleek receiver, just don't have a geometry that works on the range all that well. YMMV, of course, but that's a lot of money to spend, just to find out if you're different from most people.

Turkish guns can be great. Khans can be a tad rough, but still decent. Other guns are exceptional. CZ/Huglu shotguns are comparable to some of the nicest production guns, for a much better price. If you're not independently wealthy, buy a Beretta only after sampling a CZ. Seriously.

What I'd consider is a Mossberg Silver Reserve. They're a good price and a nice gun. Not quite as "pointable" as a sleek Beretta or Cynergy, but more so than a Citori 12. SxS guns can be a lot more pointable than any O/U except for the Beretta, Cynergy, or perhaps Remington. CZ SxS guns can be exceptional for pheasant, not so much for trap. Hardly anyone shoots trap with a SxS any more, except to practice for hunting.

Lanber (Spanish) makes a nice O/U as well. A bit pricier than Mossberg.

I'd avoid Stoeger doubles. They are pretty clunky.

An 870 might be the best choice. Cheap, reliable, and still a "go-to" field gun when you have other shotguns that are too nice to scratch up.

Me? I'm drooling over a CZ side-by-side in 20 gauge. Double triggers, straight grip, color casehardened receiver. Handles like a dream. Just over $600 around here.

 

[New_geezer]

The Mossberg Silver Reserve is made by Khan and like Khans sold under their own name, the reviews are very hit or miss. Personally, I can't afford (sounds like you can't either) to spend my money to be some manufacturer's product test group. My impression from what I've read (and I've read many sources) Khans and the MSRs are not quite ready for prime time. Maybe some day but not now.

I do own a Baikal (now Spartan) 20 ga O/U and like it very much. The wood on my particular gun is rather nice but I have to admit I've seen some ugly wood in the racks. On the other hand, if you've more time than money, a little TLC and you can make those Baikal stocks look really nice. Any lower end O/U is likely to compromise somewhere, I'd rather have the mechanics be solid and supposedly the Baikal shotguns are made in the same factories with the same quality material as Russian military firearms which fits the pattern - Strong and durable if not always pretty.

One newer Turkish import thats getting favorable reviews and might be worth checking out are Yildiz, currently only available at Academy Sporting Goods (at present the sole importer). Academy isn't in California so I haven't seen one first hand but almost everything I've read has been consistently positive.

In addition to CZ, Huglus are also sold by DeHaan. Mark DeHaan is an independent seller whose big plus is customer service. A lot of folks at www.shotgunworld.com report very good dealings with him and his company and may be worth a look if the CZs are hard to find in your area.


Added - The basics of a Remington 870 Express and an 870 Wingmaster are the same but the Express is manufactured to meet a price point therefore the wood is much cheaper, the finish is functional but not impressive and the internals are not finished off, Also the Express may use plastic parts in some non-critical areas such as the trigger guard. In a Wingmaster the internal parts are supposedly hand finished to remove the rough edges and little burrs that stamped out parts can have. It all makes the gun much smoother and much less likely to have defects from the get go. Of course the wood is much nicer and metal has a much better finish, They usually have some engraving on the receiver, on olders guns the engraving seems to be a bit more elaborate . The Wingmaster is a classic pump and much loved by those who've owned one. But the Express is no POS. Get some emory paper, take the gun apart and finish the inernals yourself and your gun will be just as smooth, or else wait until you've put 1,000 rounds thru it. Though plain Jane in appearance, it's a dependable pump, and a good value. But Wingmasters, especially older ones, do have an ooh-aah quality about them.

 

[scubie02]

if you can, go to a large store like a cabelas or a gander mountain or whatever they have in your area (forgot to look at where you are located) and just try all the different shotguns and see what fits/feels good for you. You never know what it might be. I have had shotguns I loved the look or idea of that once I handled I reluctantly realized just weren't for me because they didn't feel right.

As far as an o/u for an affordable price--i have seen older citori's witht the fixed chokes in very good shape go for as little as $400 out of the paper.

 

[Jerbear1098]

Cabela's had a Winchester Select field 26" or 28" bbls with chokes for $899 in there flyer.