cool45auto
Member
I own a Ruger KP97DC but want to go the 1911 route myself. I want one of the Kimbers like the ones L.A. SWAT use.
Should I Give the 1911 ANOTHER Try?
- Thread starter BerettaNut92
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Dave Markowitz
Member
Have you considered a Browning High Power?
Classy, reliable, quite compact, cheap good high caps easily available.
Classy, reliable, quite compact, cheap good high caps easily available.
Gerald McDonald
Member
For what you want, I dont think a 1911 is the answer. For me, the only autos I own are 1911's or BHP's, but they arent for everybody.
Skunk,
I'm a 1911 diehard, but from your first post about the Kimber and KZ45, and a $1000 limit, I'd say go with something else. You've given it two whacks and come up empty. You know for sure the double-stacks aren't your preference, and you say that the "calling" is more marketing and peer pressure than appeal.
You don't say how the Kimber felt to you, just that you were displeased with its' reliability. Kimber's junk next to Wilsons, Browns, and Baers (even I'll have to admit that last, in spite of my own Baer experience), but the problem you'll face satisfying your curiousity will cost you at least $300 more than your limit if you wanna go 1911 and find out 'new'. If you're wrong, and have to sell again, you'll take a bath. If it's the mechanics you like, have you handled a BHP?
Borrow some 1911's at the range, and see if the bug bites, or if it's just marketing hype and 'absence making the heart grow fonder'.
I'm a 1911 diehard, but from your first post about the Kimber and KZ45, and a $1000 limit, I'd say go with something else. You've given it two whacks and come up empty. You know for sure the double-stacks aren't your preference, and you say that the "calling" is more marketing and peer pressure than appeal.
You don't say how the Kimber felt to you, just that you were displeased with its' reliability. Kimber's junk next to Wilsons, Browns, and Baers (even I'll have to admit that last, in spite of my own Baer experience), but the problem you'll face satisfying your curiousity will cost you at least $300 more than your limit if you wanna go 1911 and find out 'new'. If you're wrong, and have to sell again, you'll take a bath. If it's the mechanics you like, have you handled a BHP?
Borrow some 1911's at the range, and see if the bug bites, or if it's just marketing hype and 'absence making the heart grow fonder'.
sm
member
BHP is another good choice.
Classics that have beenused world over by those in the know...but these one doesn't normally doodad up.
Look at Stephen Camp...read his site-again...he carried as a LEO, and he can definitley shoot one pretty much box stock.
CRSam is waiting for Skunk to get is first wheelgun...gonna whack his knuckles at the first mention of light rails on a mod 19 too...
Classics that have beenused world over by those in the know...but these one doesn't normally doodad up.
Look at Stephen Camp...read his site-again...he carried as a LEO, and he can definitley shoot one pretty much box stock.
CRSam is waiting for Skunk to get is first wheelgun...gonna whack his knuckles at the first mention of light rails on a mod 19 too...
Frohickey
Member
skunky...
Its really up to you. Remember, every time you change your mind, you lose a little bit of $$$ in the sale, unless you happen to sell it to a person that does not know gun prices.
Since you like the Beretta, should you just get another one instead? Would be nice to have duplicates of one. No need to get new magazines, new holsters, etc. Something to be said about commonality of parts.
As to 1911s, I would get the higher end ones, and that does not mean Kimber.
Wilson, LesBaer, Valtro. Get the 1911, the way it was designed by JMB. Not the Kimber series II schwartz safety that could not go bang. Springfields are not high end either, but they are better than Kimbers, you can replace the backstrap to get rid of the stupid Kaliforny-gunlock.
Its really up to you. Remember, every time you change your mind, you lose a little bit of $$$ in the sale, unless you happen to sell it to a person that does not know gun prices.
Since you like the Beretta, should you just get another one instead? Would be nice to have duplicates of one. No need to get new magazines, new holsters, etc. Something to be said about commonality of parts.
As to 1911s, I would get the higher end ones, and that does not mean Kimber.
Wilson, LesBaer, Valtro. Get the 1911, the way it was designed by JMB. Not the Kimber series II schwartz safety that could not go bang. Springfields are not high end either, but they are better than Kimbers, you can replace the backstrap to get rid of the stupid Kaliforny-gunlock.
I read this post when there were only one or two replies. When I came back and saw you were on the second page, I gave it some more thought.
First I tried to remember how many 1911s I've had, then how many between my wife and I. I can't remember all of them, it started in 1974, but it's been two dozen if not more. Colts, Kimber's, a couple Remington-Rands, a Caspian, and two Wilsons. Some were stock, some were customized. Some were new, some were used.
In all of that collection I can remember one gun, a Series 70 Combat Government Model that functioned OK but just would not shoot. I mean that thing wouldn't keep five shots on the 6X6 inch head of a IPSC silhouette at 25 yards. I finally had a "good" gunsmith look at it and learned the locking lugs in the slide hadn't been cut properly. The barrel would lock up differently every time. A very tired, abused, neglected WWII relic we had that rattled like a bucket of bolts shot better than the Combat Government.
Starting last January my wife and I have purchased 4 Kimbers. One, a Compact Stainless Aluminum has the same untentioned extractor the starter of this thread talked about. I'm still waiting for the gun to malfunction.
In all those years, and with all those 1911s, I can't believe my wife and I are just lucky. We have had nothing but success with the model and its caliber. The few "problems" we have had were usually traced to ammo, magazines, weak springs, or just a dirty gun from firing hundreds of rounds of cast bullet reloads. All problems which were easily addressed by me, i.e. better ammo, better magazines, new springs and good maintenance.
The internet gun boards are full of tales of "breaking in" your 1911, or putting a good gunsmith on retainer to get it running and keep it running. That has just not been my experience or the experience of most of the people I know.
Maybe this is proof of the alternate universe theories. There's the universe I live in where 1911s work, the alternate universe you guys live in where they don't. I can't explain it any better than that.
First I tried to remember how many 1911s I've had, then how many between my wife and I. I can't remember all of them, it started in 1974, but it's been two dozen if not more. Colts, Kimber's, a couple Remington-Rands, a Caspian, and two Wilsons. Some were stock, some were customized. Some were new, some were used.
In all of that collection I can remember one gun, a Series 70 Combat Government Model that functioned OK but just would not shoot. I mean that thing wouldn't keep five shots on the 6X6 inch head of a IPSC silhouette at 25 yards. I finally had a "good" gunsmith look at it and learned the locking lugs in the slide hadn't been cut properly. The barrel would lock up differently every time. A very tired, abused, neglected WWII relic we had that rattled like a bucket of bolts shot better than the Combat Government.
Starting last January my wife and I have purchased 4 Kimbers. One, a Compact Stainless Aluminum has the same untentioned extractor the starter of this thread talked about. I'm still waiting for the gun to malfunction.
In all those years, and with all those 1911s, I can't believe my wife and I are just lucky. We have had nothing but success with the model and its caliber. The few "problems" we have had were usually traced to ammo, magazines, weak springs, or just a dirty gun from firing hundreds of rounds of cast bullet reloads. All problems which were easily addressed by me, i.e. better ammo, better magazines, new springs and good maintenance.
The internet gun boards are full of tales of "breaking in" your 1911, or putting a good gunsmith on retainer to get it running and keep it running. That has just not been my experience or the experience of most of the people I know.
Maybe this is proof of the alternate universe theories. There's the universe I live in where 1911s work, the alternate universe you guys live in where they don't. I can't explain it any better than that.
I'm with DaveT on this. I've had about 15 1911's pass through my hands in the last 25 years; I've kept maybe 9 of them. I can only think of two that gave me FTF problems, and one of those two also FTE'd. Both guns were remedied after the usual minor "port and polish". I've only sold one gun out of disappointment, a Baer PII (for those have to take issue with that, search my username over at TFL and here for specifics.)
I've heard and read plenty of stories about having to tweak this and 'smith that to get 1911's to run dependably. In almost all cases, those contortions haven't been my experience either.
I've heard and read plenty of stories about having to tweak this and 'smith that to get 1911's to run dependably. In almost all cases, those contortions haven't been my experience either.
Andrew Wyatt
Member
okay. I'm confused. why are you selling your P7?
once it's fixed, it's fixed. get extra parts and if it breaks again, you can fix it.
selling it is stupid, IMHO.
once it's fixed, it's fixed. get extra parts and if it breaks again, you can fix it.
selling it is stupid, IMHO.
You don't need to buy a high end 1911 to have a totally reliable and accurate gun. The extractor take 5 minutes to tune and you can do it right there at the range.
I say "NO", stick with guns disigned for the simple minded and hope that it never malfunctions. Try a Glock or Sig . Bren
I say "NO", stick with guns disigned for the simple minded and hope that it never malfunctions.
Try a Glock or Sig . BrenYou're selling your P7? You do realize, should you ever want to replace it, you'll have to live with a garish warning on the slide?
Buy a new Colt. Many come with barstock extractors, which eliminates the MIM thing. Get nite sights. You're still well under a grand.
Buy a new Colt. Many come with barstock extractors, which eliminates the MIM thing. Get nite sights. You're still well under a grand.
sm
member
edit, nevermind...it's all being said...been so before.
Rob96
Member
Truth be told, you don't need a 1911 with all that fancy crap on it. A bone stock mil-spec Colt or Springer will serve most shooters/carriers just fine. If you want night sights talk to different pistolsmiths and see what they use, then you can pick what you want, and not what the factory installs.
I've never gotten into the 1911 craze, probably because I formed my gun prejudices before Cooper began his 1911 hype. I usually have at least one 1911 laying around though, and think they are an okay gun. I only buy stock models with no doo-dads such as beavertails, giant thumb safeties, etc, then I only fire hardball ammo through them. Have few problems. Currently have one of the new roll marked Colt Commanders. It only set me back about $550, and I couldn't be happier with it.--Leigh
Tamara
Senior Member
Have eight 1911's currently.
Each and every one, except for the goofy little Detonics (which I bought knowing that it was going to be troublesome), has been 100%.
That said, they are more cantankerous on average out of the box. Have owned a few, especially back in the '80s, that were less than reliable with anything other than ball or Silvertips. If somebody plunked a $100 bill on the counter at work, handed me a box of one hundred assorted hollowpoints in .45 ACP, and told me I could keep the money if I could pick one new, unfired handgun and run all one hundred rounds without a malf, I'd walk right past the showcase with the 1911's. I'd walk right past the case with the Identical Drone Pistols, too, and go down to the one that has the new S&W 625 in it and ask "Do I get to use moonclips?"
Each and every one, except for the goofy little Detonics (which I bought knowing that it was going to be troublesome), has been 100%.
That said, they are more cantankerous on average out of the box. Have owned a few, especially back in the '80s, that were less than reliable with anything other than ball or Silvertips. If somebody plunked a $100 bill on the counter at work, handed me a box of one hundred assorted hollowpoints in .45 ACP, and told me I could keep the money if I could pick one new, unfired handgun and run all one hundred rounds without a malf, I'd walk right past the showcase with the 1911's. I'd walk right past the case with the Identical Drone Pistols, too, and go down to the one that has the new S&W 625 in it and ask "Do I get to use moonclips?"
Tamara
Senior Member
Leon Carr,
Yeah, I get my gun-buying advice from imaginary US Marshals played by anti-gun hollywood superstars.
Yeah, I get my gun-buying advice from imaginary US Marshals played by anti-gun hollywood superstars.
antediluvianist
Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2003
- Messages
- 182
it's an inferior.45ACP design
The 1911 is a reletively primitive weapon, much improved upon by other designs since it came out. For that matter, Browning himself improved upon the design with his High Power .
Ditch the dog. Get a CZ-97B, or , as suggested above, SIG etc..
Some time in the future, you may wish to buy a 1911 just to round out your collection, or for "nostalgia". But enjoy a better gun meanwhile.
OK, all you 1911 macho historians, let's hear your praises for the inferior gun.
The 1911 is a reletively primitive weapon, much improved upon by other designs since it came out. For that matter, Browning himself improved upon the design with his High Power .
Ditch the dog. Get a CZ-97B, or , as suggested above, SIG etc..
Some time in the future, you may wish to buy a 1911 just to round out your collection, or for "nostalgia". But enjoy a better gun meanwhile.
OK, all you 1911 macho historians, let's hear your praises for the inferior gun.
Tamara
Senior Member
That's me all right: "macho 1911 historian." *snicker*
So, antediluvianist, which 1911's did you have such a poor experience with?
*snicker*So, antediluvianist, which 1911's did you have such a poor experience with?
Mr Ante.....
We do not defend...we educate.
Did the FBI HRT, Marine Recon, LAPD SWAT, Delta Force chose SIGS or CZ's AFTER exhaustive testing?
Ooops, no, they chose something else
.
Have the Sigs and CZ won trophy after trophy in Bullseye and Practical competition?
Don't think so.:banghead:
Yes...they are very nice sidearms...they work well and are accurate.
Pretty danged BIG too
What you call excuses, we call valuable experience
Jercamp45
We do not defend...we educate.
Did the FBI HRT, Marine Recon, LAPD SWAT, Delta Force chose SIGS or CZ's AFTER exhaustive testing?
Ooops, no, they chose something else
.Have the Sigs and CZ won trophy after trophy in Bullseye and Practical competition?
Don't think so.:banghead:
Yes...they are very nice sidearms...they work well and are accurate.
Pretty danged BIG too
What you call excuses, we call valuable experience
Jercamp45
RTFM
member
In my opinion, NO to the 1911.
But YES to the 45ACP
Sig P220 Stainless with Rail.
RTFM
But YES to the 45ACP
Sig P220 Stainless with Rail.
RTFM
BerettaNut92
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 9,723
Coupla things.
1. NOOOOO smiths. I'll only send a gun in to either the factory or someone who is endorsed by pretty much everyone in the camp, like Ernest Langdon. Hence the coming with night sights.
2. I did very well with my Kimber. I was disgusted with the reliability, which retrospect wasn't THAT bad, but I expected more (at the time) from a pistol. I wasn't as fast as with my Beretta, but shot it pretty well.
btw I was tongue in cheek about the marketing and peer pressure thing though good photography has a way of getting to me
1. NOOOOO smiths. I'll only send a gun in to either the factory or someone who is endorsed by pretty much everyone in the camp, like Ernest Langdon. Hence the coming with night sights.
2. I did very well with my Kimber. I was disgusted with the reliability, which retrospect wasn't THAT bad, but I expected more (at the time) from a pistol. I wasn't as fast as with my Beretta, but shot it pretty well.
btw I was tongue in cheek about the marketing and peer pressure thing
though good photography has a way of getting to me Rebel Gunman HK
member
I own 2 Loaded Springfields and they work just fine with McCormick mags. I think 1911's are very attractive and dont consider them primitive. I own An Hk, a Ruger, and now a Beretta and I consider my 1911's just as good. If you like the 1911 at all I say buy another one. My first one took a little time to grow on me and now I love the way it feels.
Andrew Wyatt
Member
it fits my hand and has a better trigger than anything you can show me.
LeonCarr
Member
Hey Tamara,
Sure, Sam Gerard is imaginary, but he still carries the best gun. My gun buying advice comes from carrying a Glock for a living almost everyday since June 15, 1995. It also comes from shooting 21,000 rounds through three Glocks, with zero malfunctions.
By the way, it isn't everyday a pretty girl talks about one of my posts.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Sure, Sam Gerard is imaginary, but he still carries the best gun
. My gun buying advice comes from carrying a Glock for a living almost everyday since June 15, 1995. It also comes from shooting 21,000 rounds through three Glocks, with zero malfunctions.By the way, it isn't everyday a pretty girl talks about one of my posts
.Just my .02,
LeonCarr
antediluvianist,
Thanks for the advice, but since I shoot my inferior, outdated, obsolete 1911s in 3 gun or IDPA matches every month, going through hundreds of rounds every weekend, with no problem whatsoever I'll just have to go with my own personal experience. Thanks for the advice though.
Skunk, only you can decide what gun is best for you.
Thanks for the advice, but since I shoot my inferior, outdated, obsolete 1911s in 3 gun or IDPA matches every month, going through hundreds of rounds every weekend, with no problem whatsoever I'll just have to go with my own personal experience. Thanks for the advice though.
Skunk, only you can decide what gun is best for you.
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