Should I Give the 1911 ANOTHER Try?

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If you want night sights (and why on earth would you?) on a decent 1911 under $1000 new, you have exactly one choice:
STI Trojan

And hey, the trigger bow is carbon fiber :neener:

Personally I think you should go for it. BUT, there's a ready-made argument for why you shouldn't. The 1911's principal advantages are its trigger and its ergonomics. The Langdon trigger on your Beretta probably has you spoiled you on the trigger issue, and the ergonomics either work for you or they don't. So if you don't need to go to the 1911 for those advantages (like I do), then you shouldn't feel compelled to. Just get a $300 Sistema for the sake of a complete collection and call it a day.
 
Monster, could you please post a pic of the trigger? :eek:

I want one of those Kimber Tacticals but they don't have light rails for them. Going to talk to Surefire re mounting solutions.
 
OK, all you 1911 macho historians, let's hear your praises for the inferior gun.
Click to expand...

Okay, let me take a moment away from photographing flowers and cats and be macho...

With a 1911 in .45ACP, or in .38 Super, I can (when I am in practice) keep all shots(first to last) accurately aimed with good effect, firing as fast as I can pull the trigger. I can almost do the same with a 10mm, but have to slow down a little due to the greater recoil. I can also do it with a Browning Hi Power(only with difficulty, due to the trigger reset) but not with any other semi-auto pistol. With any other semi-auto system, or a revolver, some of the shots are straying.

Yes, I know Jerry Miculek can outshoot me with his Smith, and someone else can probably do it with a P220ST. Most other people do best with a 1911, however. Tough to call it inferior when it outperforms the competition.

My Springfield Mil-spec .38 Super has never jammed, not with light .38ACP ammo, not with fire breathing 9x23's, not with any .38 Super.

My Series 80 Gold Cup has never jammed. My Stainless Colt 1991A1 has never jammed. My old 1991A1 has never jammed, unless I was doing something silly, like loading .400 Corbons in it.

My 10mm Delta Elite was made in the bad old days of 1987 - yet give it magazines with strong springs, like Colt or CMC, it doesn't jam, not even with its new uber-tight Bar-sto barrel.

My Defender is particular about ammo. Since it is flawless with my handloads, I really can't get too offended:D

My 9mm Commander is a little fussy, needs some more work. It is entitled, it began life as a .45 Commander.

Don't get me wrong - I like the SIG's, the P7, the BHP, and some others. I have seen 1911's that didn't run - usually because they had verifiable defects, or because someone built them too tight, trying to wring every last smidgeon of accuracy out of them. As an all-around sport shooting/CQB weapon, however, the 1911 has earned my faith in it, especially when marked with little prancing ponies on the side.
 
Leon Carr,

My gun buying advice comes from carrying a Glock for a living almost everyday since June 15, 1995. It also comes from shooting 21,000 rounds through three Glocks,
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Oh, I've had nine Glocks since '93 myself (3 G23's, 2 G23C's, 2 G33's, a G29 and a G30). Every one of 'em ran like a top. :) So did all my SIGs, every Beretta and HK I've owned, all my current 1911's... :)

"Reliability" is the baseline criteria; where do we go from there? ;)
 
Tamara,

Here is the story. I just flat out have had problems over the years with 1911s. Accuracy was never a problem, shootability was never a problem (the slide on a 1911 cycles in 4/100 of a second). Reliability was always a problem. Even with competent APG member gunsmiths (I know one whose children are attending Texas A&M University because of me, I guarantee it :) ), the best parts, the best ammo, the best magazines, and a very overstressed Visa card, 1911s have never run right for me. They may be the cats meow for some folks, but when somebody wants to buy one, I tend to be outspoken. I tend to quote Obi-Wan Kenobi and say "Use the force Luke. Don't be seduced by the Dark Side". Maybe for the rest of the planet, they are good guns. For me, owning a Glock, that will run on any kind of ammo, in any kind of conditions, without having to buy special magazines, and will shoot more accurately than most out of the box 1911s (semi-custom type guns excluded) is a good thing. Is the Glock the perfect gun? No. Is it perfect for me? Yes. I have owned the other name brand type guns (sig, beretta, etc.) and they have been great performers, but they aren't Glocks :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
I used to shoot a GI 1911 (springfield issued). It worked pretty good, although it wasn't very accurate. Unfortunately though, it wasn't mine and when the owner left, so did it.

When I could, I bought a Springfield 1911 Milspec. It cost about $425

Let me say first, I like this gun. It has the cool factor. It is about as close to the GI pistol you can buy new, so it has some cool background.

The problem is, it doesn't work very well. It has a lot of failure to feed issues with every type of ammo I have used. Replacing the magazine with a wilson combat didn't even change how often it happens. I will not have the gun physically modified. If I had wanted something that had been cut on, I would have bought something else. I suspect that my problem is with the extractor and I have ordered a replacement, so we'll see.

But if it takes >$1k to get a gun that will make $6-700 gun seem like crap, screw that.

I bought a Sig P220ST for about $725 out the door. I'm adding meprolights, which will be about $70. Obviously they are very different guns, maybe its an apple to oranges kind of comparison.

The thing with the Sig is that the very first time I shot it, I only made one hole in the paper; I had never done that before. I have put about 2500 rounds through it with out any failures; I've never done that before either.

It is a mechanically simple, easy to shoot, easy to maintain, good looking gun that is also very popular with law enforcement agencies (if that matters to you at all).

For the cost of a $1300 gun I bought the sig, night sights, about 2000 rounds of ammo and a gun club membership. Can't beat that with a stick.
 
I'll agree with a coupla others: check out a Hipower. I was never a fan; thought they were ugly and old skul :barf: .

Then I got to shoot one. Mmmmmm :) . They're not significantly larger than a 1911 with std grips. Certainly more svelte than that Eyetalian Hog you love so much.

You can pick up an FEG or an FM for cheap and send it out for a little work then buy a coupla full cap mags and still be cheaper than a 'quality' 1911.

http://tenring.com/HighPower2.JPG

This one is from tenring with their $495 BHP package. I love the beavertail on a BHP.

:cool:
 
...1911s have never run right for me.
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Leon,

See, you live in that alternate universe from the one I'm in.

I find it facinating how one person's experience can be so radically different from another's. And don't think I'm saying you are wrong. Just 180 degrees away from me.

As an example: my sister, who was 57 years old at the time and a nursing administrator rather than an athlete, moved to Arizona and got a CCW permit. Her preferred carry weapon was a 1991A1 Commander. It was absolutely stock and she put between 2000 and 3000 rounds through it in practice without a single malfunction.

Because of the weight she wanted a lighter gun and since my wife and I were carrying Glocks then, sis got a Glock 23. For the most part it was reliable but she occasionally had mis-fires with my handloads (as I did with my G30). She never shot it as well as the Commander and about 6 months ago got another Commander. She is about to pick up a Lt Wt Officer's ACP for purse carry. Guess what? The new Commander hasn't malfunctioned and I don't expect the Officer's to either.

See what I mean...alternate universes.
 
Give that 1911 another chance. Go with the Kimber again since you didnt have any problems shooting the first one. The newer Kimbers have an external extractor.
 
Dave T,

Maybe if I get me a tricked out Delorean with a flux capacitor and a Mr. Fusion Home Energy Reactor, I can get back to the future to that alternate universe where a 1911 will work for me :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
Having just begun to convert a couple of shooters accustomed to supposedly more reliable brands with mediocre trigger pulls to the cult of 1911 I say "yes, you should give the 1911 another try."
 
I am pleased to be living in the same universe as Dave T.

I have owned over a dozen 1911 style pistols in my life.
Akk have either been genuine Colts or actual honest to gosh military 1911A1s with the exception of 2 Auto Ordinance models.

Many of these had their feed ramps polished with a craytex wheel in my Dremel. Other than that I have done nothing except regular maintenance and spring replacements to keep all of them up and running.

The only malfunctions I have had in any of those could be traced to either:

1) bad magazines - (most common)
2) bad ammunition - (it happens especially with laquered steel cases)
3) bad springs - (I now replace almost all of the springs on any used automatic I buy)

My brothers Frankengun built on an Olympic arms frame with an unknown BROWN slide went over 3000 rounds with NO malfunctions.
The same can be said for my cousin's 1991A1 Officers ACP. R-e-l-i-a-b-l-e.

I have owned and/or shot 1911s that wouldn't hit the side of a barn from the inside but they always fed, fired and ejected. The biggest total investment I have ever had in a 1911 style 45 is about $650.00 and $100 of that was personal preference items.

So I just don't understand what all of the fuss is about.
But then I have never suffered from Hammer Bite either. :rolleyes:

The only two guns I have ever owned that actualy had regular malfunctions were the Nazi era JP Sauer 38H that my father brought back from Berlin in 1945 and the first American made Walther PPKs I ever saw. (I ordered it and waited 6 months to get it.)

The Sauer would FTF every other magazine full (with either magazine) and the Walther rarely made it through one. A new extractor fixed the problem in the Walther and from then on it was great. As for the Sauer I sold it for WAYYYY too much money.

But then again my S&W 59-2 was dead reliable also and we all know what dogs they supposedly were.

The worst functioning gun I ever owned was a Ruger 10-22.

Go figure.


Just my tuppence. YMMV
 
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antediluvianist boasted,
The 1911 is a reletively primitive weapon...
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The Knife is an ANCIENT weapon/tool but how many of us carry and/or use one every single day?
:rolleyes:

As for me I ain't worried. I use my relatively primitive weapon for self defense against relatively primitive creatures.
:neener:
 
Skunk,

If you are looking for a 1911 with light rails, check out the Kimber TLE\RL II. It is like the LAPD civilian setup, except with an external extractor and the light mount on the dust cover. I picked one up about a month ago, so far 2,000rnds without any glitches at all. Due to my past experience, I will not be buying many more 1911's, but this one has made me happy thus far. I've had terrible luck with properly tensioned internal 1911 extractors, but so far great luck with the external ones.
 
Marauder I feel the same way about external extractors. I'm still undecided as to the weapon mounted light...not sure if I really want one or not.
 
Another one here in that other universe.
I WANT the internal extractor.
In fact I really am comfortable without a lowered and flared ejection...proper tensioned internal extractor,which is no big deal, you don't need it.

I mean its only a pistol If I could find a concealed method for a 12 ga I'd be happier.

Our own Sage Tamara put it best:

The faster most folks realize that all guns suck, the happier they'll be.
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No, you don't seem too entusiastic about giving the 1911 ANOTHER try. Since you like Berettas, why not a Sig or CZ since they use the same DA/SA operation? In the end, just go with what tickles your fancy.
 
What marauder220 said...

I've seen the Kimber TLE RL II for $799 @ Guns America. I would buy 2 of them before I buy a Wilson and its a clear winner over the SW1911.

C'mon Skunk join the bandwagon! :evil:
 
I've owned a whole bunch of 1911's over the years from a $169 Sistema, to Colts, Kimbers to Frankenstein race guns. All of them were reliable right out of the box (or rusty "bin" in the case of that Sistema). And they've been in various sizes, from compact on up.

SOME of these older guns would choke on various hollowpoints and the solution to that was to polish the lip of the chamber with a dremel - that took about 15 minutes...
Tip: If you want to know if your gun will feed ANYTHING, try some of those Blazer hollowpoints with the Ford Edsel feed profile. If they feed those, they'll feed anything!
Various 1911's have just choked period, and the solution to that was to throw away whatever crap magazine caused the problem. I've gotten a few great deals over the years from people who had "unreliable" 1911's. I bought the guns cheap, replaced the junk magazine causing the problem and had a great gun!

Keith
 
Everytime I try the 1911 I get bit. The first time it was a Springfield Armory 1911A1 Loaded. I couldnt run a full mag without FTF's. The second was a heavily customized 1911A1 that had a problem with the sear. The guns hammer would follow the slide and it would discharge. Had it fixed and sold it.

The 1911 mystique still calls me every once and a while, but i remember the lesson of the past. In all honesty with my record I will probabaly try the 1911 again, but it never seems to work for me.

I have seen expensive 1911's jam in IDPA competitions while those 500.00 Glocks, Sigs, and H&K's just keep on chugging away.
 
geez, skunk. find a GI 1911A1 in decent, bone-stock shape, and call it done.

or, if the thickness of the 92 is the problem, partake of a Beretta 92 compact L type M. hell, go get Mastrogiacomo's.. heh
 
I went to the gun shoppe today and saw the Kimber Tactical.

The alum fram models still have a good heft to them which is nice. I like everything on it but am undecided on the mag well. I think I'm leaning against the light rail model TLE even though I heard they just got approved in California.

I figure even if I have two handgun systems (Beretta and 1911) that's ok as I can switch between them since I'm so fickle anyway :)

Maybe I'll order one. Neat gun.
 
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