Fatelvis
Member
I'm buying 500 LC pulldown, primed brass, with sealant still in the neck. Should I NS them using a bushing, or load them as-is? Thanks-
Should I neck size this pulldown brass?
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billybob44
Contributing Member
Well-Yes+I'm not sure..
I bought 5K of LC pull down brass, neck sized them all with a Redding Neck Size die, with the carbide expander button.
I'm not sure with a bushing type die?
Either way, you WILL want to re-apply the neck tension-this is done with the sizer die. You can pull the decap pin+full length, or neck size-your choice..Bill.
PS: You will find that the sealant WILL gum up the die+it should be cleaned about every 100 cases or so...
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Fatelvis
Member
I was thinking either using a neck size bushing with no expander (Sealant will gum up the exp ball) or just load it. Is .001" neck tension enough to feed it into a M1A? Hmmmm.
billybob44
Contributing Member
My brass was LC 5.56. You may try a few without the expander ball+see if the bullet will start ok after bushing neck size. If it were me, either way I would size...Bill.
JustSomeGuyinCA
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I would be very nervous about shooting ammunition knowing there was only .001" of neck tension... especially in an autoloader.
highlander 5
Member
Here's a suggestion you might want to try,take a brass bore brush of the appropriate size,put it a portable drill and run the cases over it at a slow to medium speed it should remove whats left of the asphaltium cement.
FROGO207
Member
I would remove the sealer as suggested above then neck size with the expander lifted enough to clear the primer or remove the depriming pin from the stem and size as usual. I would not trust a pulled bullet sized brass neck for safe neck tension. Also accuracy would be poor due to erratic burning of the propellant as neck tension would vary a bunch.
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Fatelvis
Member
Thats funny! I use the same test. I'm hearing from other people that bought this brass that powder kernals are stuck in the tar, almost necessitating sealant removal before loading....I'm out! Too much messin around for me! Thanks for your imput guys.
I don't worry about the errant granule. It should have a similar burn rate anyway, and a few granules does not a tenth of a gram make.
I do my best cleaning my chargemaster, but I doubt I get all of the granules because of the screw-dispenser. I haven't had any issues switching from pistol or rifle powders.
I do my best cleaning my chargemaster, but I doubt I get all of the granules because of the screw-dispenser. I haven't had any issues switching from pistol or rifle powders.
choppinlow
Member
Is it that big of a deal to just size them so you KNOW they are right? Maybe I am just picky, but I would do it just to be certain and to help ensure some consistency.
Maybe not all your ammo needs to be super precision.
Heck, if I cast a big enough batch of boolits, I save and load even the rejects with malformed bases. I just keep 'em in a separate pile, so I know which ones not to use when the bragging starts.
Recasting them is easy enough, but sometimes it's not worth the effort when the ammo will still do what you want for 99% of your shooting. Shoot it up and get it right the next go around. I think of it as part plinking-grade ammo, and part an ongoing experiment to see what really affects accuracy, how much, and at what ranges.
Being certain about sizing consistency is one thing. But knowing and seeing a difference on paper is another.
Heck, if I cast a big enough batch of boolits, I save and load even the rejects with malformed bases. I just keep 'em in a separate pile, so I know which ones not to use when the bragging starts.
Recasting them is easy enough, but sometimes it's not worth the effort when the ammo will still do what you want for 99% of your shooting. Shoot it up and get it right the next go around. I think of it as part plinking-grade ammo, and part an ongoing experiment to see what really affects accuracy, how much, and at what ranges.
Being certain about sizing consistency is one thing. But knowing and seeing a difference on paper is another.
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I still have to get around to loading up the pull down brass I bought. The tar sealant gums up the expander ball every 5 rounds as is. I deprimed them and will use a solvent to dissolve the tar. It is nice brass that I know wasn't used in a MG, but what a pain. Ultimately I feel it is a good deal as this brass should last for me, it just won't be as quick as I thought.
Also, I tried a bronze brush on a drill. Didn't work. I could get it with a dental pick if you have that kind of time.
Also, I tried a bronze brush on a drill. Didn't work. I could get it with a dental pick if you have that kind of time.
Why is it not a problem with OF brass? Does the sealant just get blown out of the case? I have plenty of OF'd LC 223 cases that are fine.
Seems like you'd be better off if you just seat a new bullet with a good crimp and shoot it to get rid of the sealant.
Seems like you'd be better off if you just seat a new bullet with a good crimp and shoot it to get rid of the sealant.
If you dip the brush in the appropriate solvent, I'd be surprised it doesn't work. You did try solvent?
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Fatelvis
Member
That ia why I was thinking of just using a bushing, (no expander ball).
I think the sealant burns off and/or blows out the muzzle.
I originally liked the idea of an unfired, primed case to load for my M1A, cuz I know it hasnt been fired in a MG and being already primed seemed like it would make loading faster, but the sealant seems to be the "fly in the ointment".
W.E.G.
Member
I don't trust any .223 brass that's new-to-me.
All of it goes through the full-length sizer before it goes in my rifle.
I have no patience with ammo malfunctions borne of decisions to omit safeguards.
All of it goes through the full-length sizer before it goes in my rifle.
I have no patience with ammo malfunctions borne of decisions to omit safeguards.
Swampman
Old Fart
I've purchased quite a bit of pulldown brass over the years, usually there are a few bent and fouled up case mouths that pretty much require at least a neck sizing.
I've never had any problems with full length resizing the cases without lubing them. I used regular RCBS dies with a Hornady carbide expander ball. If the mouths were really screwed up, I'd stick needle nose pliers in them to more or less round 'em out before sizing.
If the ammo was intended for anything but immediate use for short range practice, I'd deprime, remove the crimp and reprime.
Some paper towel wrapped around a dowel and sprayed with B12 Chemtool carb cleaner will remove the sealer pretty quickly, keep the case mouths pointed down during this operation if you intend to use the existing primers.
I've never had any problems with full length resizing the cases without lubing them. I used regular RCBS dies with a Hornady carbide expander ball. If the mouths were really screwed up, I'd stick needle nose pliers in them to more or less round 'em out before sizing.
If the ammo was intended for anything but immediate use for short range practice, I'd deprime, remove the crimp and reprime.
Some paper towel wrapped around a dowel and sprayed with B12 Chemtool carb cleaner will remove the sealer pretty quickly, keep the case mouths pointed down during this operation if you intend to use the existing primers.
I've heard of "out of battery" kb's in an AR, but I have to admit I have no clue how that works. If the bolt doesn't rotate and lock into battery, I can't see how the gun would fire. Hence, I don't see why you call this a safeguard. If feed reliability is your concern, you can always put the cases through a case gauge or a chamber check. Personally, if a random 5-10% all gauged the same and within spec, I wouldn't bother checking or sizing all 500+ cases. Then either necksize with a bushing neck die to totally restore the lost neck tension or just chamfer and put a good crimp on the bullets for use in a semiauto. For a bolt action, just add a little flare or chamfer for a flat base bullet, or maybe even just stuff a boat tail in with no prep and call it good. Since you're using a new bullet for each case, it might work; at least things won't gum up after every x rounds.
Do you pulldown/resize/reload all your factory ammo as a safeguard? On top of all that, putting a case through a FLR isn't a failsafe guarantee. If the case was fired in an oversize chamber, it can still be too long after FLR.
If the loaded ammo was good enough for the military, the pulled down cases are more than likely good enough for me for the first loading. The next 10 reloadings can be perfect.
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W.E.G.
Member
Do you?
I did not use solvent at that point because they were still primed then. Also there was powder stuck deep in the body of the case that a brush would not remove. My decision was to deprime and treat it all like fresh unprimed brass. I'm admittedly a nut for best possible consistency even in bulk loaded ammo.
No. I trust the new-to-me brass to be in spec - as well the rest of the components. So I omit the safeguards of pulling the new-to-me bullet, dumping and weighing the new-to-me powder charge, and resizing the new-to-me brass. I don't think I'd necessarily change my routine if I had 500 rounds of factory made (milspec, no less) ammo minus the bullet and powder. Why would you feel the need to FLR this brass vs what we've been talking about - neck sizing, only - but be fine with shooting factory ammo with the unsafeguarded new-to-me brass that it comes in?
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Fatelvis
Member
I'm taking a pass on this pulled brass. (It rhymes!) The sealant issue truly sealed it!
243winxb
Member
For your info on future purchases. Brass that has had the bullets pulled, need to have there neck sized. Would you use an expander the same diameter as the bullet? No, because you would not have enough neck tension for an M1A. If loading 1 round at a time, with a single shot bolt action, it may work. http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm Sierra, loading for autos.
Swampman
Old Fart
"If the loaded ammo was good enough for the military, the pulled down cases are more than likely good enough for me"
Obviously this ammo WASN'T "good enough for the military". I mean, they didn't shoot it, did they?
Sometimes ammo is pulled down purely due to age and the depletion of stabilizers in the powder, but I've purchased primed, pull down brass with a headstamp that was only a couple of years old.
Trusting something because it was "good enough for the military" after the military has essentially thrown it away, makes just about as much sense as dining from the dumpster behind an expensive restaurant because "they only buy and serve the best"!
Lets ignore the fact that we're dealing with the militarys trash for a moment and assume that they got rid of the ammo by mistake and everything was in perfect condition when it was sold.
This may come as a shock to some people, but the demil contractors don't have to follow quite the same quality protocols as military ammunition manufacturers.
I feel like they generally exercise reasonable care and the vast majority of the cases I've received have been in good, usable condition. On the other hand, I've seen everything from corrosion that had almost eaten its way through the brass to cases totally plugged with mud and dead spiders from dirt dauber nests!
Trying to equate a certain lack of trust in, and the desire to do everything possible to ensure the safety of pulldown brass with, "Do you pulldown/resize/reload all your factory ammo as a safeguard?" Was more than a little disrespectful as well as pointless.
Ammunition manufacturers obviously take every reasonable precaution to ensure that the ammunition that they produce is safe, because if they don't, they'll be sued out of existence.
There is no such accountability associated with salvaged military items. Good luck even finding a lawyer who'll take your case if you blow up your rifle or erase your eyeballs with defective pulldown brass. Who are you going to sue? The military? The demil contractor? Any one of several jobbers or distributors? The guy you got it from at the gun show?
The bottom line of all this, is that reloading is an inherently dangerous pastime, when we attempt to reuse the components of ammunition that has been condemned by a competent authority for reasons completely unknown to us, we increase that danger.
Poking fun at others and trying to "prove" that they're being ridiculous just because their safety standards happen to be higher than your own really isn't helpful or productive.
Now if someone were to come up with a suggestion that was actually unsafe, that's different. I think we'd all agree that the unsafe advice should be thoroughly debunked so that it wouldn't cause harm to anyone that followed it.
I haven't seen any advice that I would consider unsafe offered in this thread...
Obviously this ammo WASN'T "good enough for the military". I mean, they didn't shoot it, did they?
Sometimes ammo is pulled down purely due to age and the depletion of stabilizers in the powder, but I've purchased primed, pull down brass with a headstamp that was only a couple of years old.
Trusting something because it was "good enough for the military" after the military has essentially thrown it away, makes just about as much sense as dining from the dumpster behind an expensive restaurant because "they only buy and serve the best"!
Lets ignore the fact that we're dealing with the militarys trash for a moment and assume that they got rid of the ammo by mistake and everything was in perfect condition when it was sold.
This may come as a shock to some people, but the demil contractors don't have to follow quite the same quality protocols as military ammunition manufacturers.
I feel like they generally exercise reasonable care and the vast majority of the cases I've received have been in good, usable condition. On the other hand, I've seen everything from corrosion that had almost eaten its way through the brass to cases totally plugged with mud and dead spiders from dirt dauber nests!
Trying to equate a certain lack of trust in, and the desire to do everything possible to ensure the safety of pulldown brass with, "Do you pulldown/resize/reload all your factory ammo as a safeguard?" Was more than a little disrespectful as well as pointless.
Ammunition manufacturers obviously take every reasonable precaution to ensure that the ammunition that they produce is safe, because if they don't, they'll be sued out of existence.
There is no such accountability associated with salvaged military items. Good luck even finding a lawyer who'll take your case if you blow up your rifle or erase your eyeballs with defective pulldown brass. Who are you going to sue? The military? The demil contractor? Any one of several jobbers or distributors? The guy you got it from at the gun show?
The bottom line of all this, is that reloading is an inherently dangerous pastime, when we attempt to reuse the components of ammunition that has been condemned by a competent authority for reasons completely unknown to us, we increase that danger.
Poking fun at others and trying to "prove" that they're being ridiculous just because their safety standards happen to be higher than your own really isn't helpful or productive.
Now if someone were to come up with a suggestion that was actually unsafe, that's different. I think we'd all agree that the unsafe advice should be thoroughly debunked so that it wouldn't cause harm to anyone that followed it.
I haven't seen any advice that I would consider unsafe offered in this thread...
I'm working 1000 pcs. of .308 pull down brass right now and can say it was pulled for a reason. Most seem due to in consistent neck lengths. Some looked as though they were never trimmed after the last draw as the necks were VERY ragged and about .125" too long. Some others had annealing marks that were halfway down the the case body and those were culled from the herd. The long ones I trimmed and included them in the first batch of 50 I shot last weekend. No problems as of yet.
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