Should Muslims be in the military?

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Couple months ago, I went to hear a Palestinian speaker give his explanation of why the US is the object of so much hatred in the Mid-East. They don't hate us "for our freedoms", they don't hate us because we are decadent, they don't hate us because we are (mainly) Christians. They hate us because we support Israel-right-or-wrong. They hate us because we supported some bloody-handed tyrants in the region (e.g. the Shah of Iran) and they hate us because they believe they can't trust us.
Interestingly, he wasn't Muslim. He and his family have been Baptist for generations. He also mentioned that there are Melkites, Orthodox, and other varieties of Christians among the Arabs, Persians, Kurds, et. al. They aren't subject to much in the way of persecution from their Muslim neighbors, according to him. He said that the US trying to spin this up into a war of Islam vs. The American Way is, at best, disingenuous.
 
From what I have heard, Osama has more problems with us than just the fact the we support Israel.
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Our involvement in Saudi Arabia is one of the key points he harps on.
 
Should muslims be allowed in the military?
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Absolutely! ...PROVIDED ! they are screened , screened and screened again, and if they are caught like anybody else committing treason....EXEICUTE them and ship their POS bodies back to the country they were spying for !...Simple:D
 
They hate us because we support Israel-right-or-wrong.

Our involvement in Saudi Arabia is one of the key points he harps on.


Whewwww, that's a relief- I thought they killed over 2,000 in NY for no good reason.

I can rest easy now.:rolleyes:
 
Our GOOD buddies. Where 18 of the 9.11 bombers were from. Who, as part of OPEC, just voted to CUT production for the winter months to raise oil prices.
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I dream of the day when someone comes up with a workable alternative to petroleum. Not because of environmental concerns, but just so we can give the finger to the whole region.
 
Yep strong questions like "Do you want to help Bin Laden succeed in killing all infidels" might be a tad, well, distasteful.
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2dogs,

We're back to the same thing again. How do you know who's a Muslim and who isn't? By their looks? By their ethnicity? I don't think so (check the demographics on American Muslims if you choose not to believe me).

I know! We could just ask everyone, real respectful like. "Do you support Bin Laden? Are you a radical Islamist?"

And of course they'll tell us, won't they.

Just like the hijackers all dutifully went to Mosque every day and wore funny clothes and openly respected all the dietary and alcohol restrictions and ...

Oh, they didn't?

You mean, they deceived us by trying to look like ordinary immigrants? They tried to blend into American culture and they succeeded?

Hmmmm. The openly Muslim aren't a threat, it's the ones that hide that we've got to worry about. Sneaky buggers.

Forget investigating the openly Muslim. Investigate the atheists and Christians!!

No, wait, that won't work. Probably some of the openly Muslim are a threat, too.

I know. Why don't we run a background check on everyone who wants to join the military, and take a closer look at anyone whose background seems iffy?

Oh, we already do that? Really?

Whew. Problem solved. What a relief.

pax

"Arthur," said Ford
"Hello? Yes?" said Arthur.
"Just believe everything I tell you, and it will all be very, very simple."
"Ah, well I'm not sure I believe that." -- Douglas Adams
 
General Zinni joined the Marine Corps in 1961 and was commissioned an infantry second lieutenant in 1965 upon graduation from Villanova University. He has held numerous command and staff assignments that include platoon, company, battalion, regimental, Marine expeditionary unit, and Marine expeditionary force command. His staff assignments included service in operations, training, special operations, counter-terrorism and manpower billets. He has also been a tactics and operations instructor at several Marine Corps schools and was selected as a fellow on the Chief of Naval Operations Strategic Studies Group. General Zinni's joint assignments include command of a joint task force and a unified command. He has also had several joint and combined staff billets at task force and unified command levels

He has made deployments to the Mediterranean, the Caribbean, the Western Pacific, Northern Europe and Korea. He has also served tours in Okinawa and Germany. His operational experiences include two tours in Vietnam, emergency relief and security operations in the Philippines, Operation Provide Comfort in Turkey and northern Iraq, Operation Provide Hope in the former Soviet Union, Operations
Restore Hope, Continue Hope, and United Shield in Somalia, Operations Resolute Response and Noble Response in. Kenya, Operations Desert Thunder, Desert Fox, Desert Viper, Desert Spring, Southern Watch and the Maritime Intercept Operations in the Persian Gulf, and Operation Infinite Reach against terrorist targets in the Central Region. He was involved in the planning and execution of Operation Proven Force and Operation Patriot Defender in support of the Gulf War and noncombatant evacuation operations in Liberia, Zaire, Sierra Leone, and Eritrea. He has also participated in presidential diplomatic missions to Somalia, Pakistan, and Ethiopia-Eritrea and was the former U. S. Peace Envoy to the Middle East, involving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and conflicts in Indonesia.

He has attended numerous military schools and courses including the National War College. He holds a bachelor's degree in economics, a master's in international relations, a master's in management and supervision, and honorary doctorate's from William and Mary College and the Maine Maritime academy.

General Zinni's awards include the Defense Distinguished Service Medal with oak leaf cluster; the Distinguished Service Medal; the Defense Superior Service Medal with two oak leaf clusters; the Bronze Star with Combat "V" and gold star, the Purple Heart; the Meritorious Service Medal with gold star-, the Navy Commendation Medal with Combat "V" and gold star; the Navy Achievement Medal with gold star; the Combat Action Ribbon; and personal decorations from South Vietnam, France, Italy, Egypt, Kuwait, Yemen, and Bahrain. He also holds 36 unit, service, and campaign awards. His civilian awards include the Papal Gold Cross of Honor, the Union League's Abraham Lincoln Award, the Italic Studies Institute's Global Peace Award, the Distinguished Sea Service Award from the Naval Order of the United States, the Eisenhower Distinguished Service Award from the Veterans of Foreign Wars, The Chapman Award from the Marine Corps University Foundation, the Penn Club Award, and the St. Thomas of Villanova Alumni Medal.


Don't be frightened. This Muslim retired. :barf:
 
Don't be frightened. This Muslim retired.
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Yes, but how long will it be before we fix all the damage he did? I mean, that Muslim served with distinction and honor for decades, and is a shining example of what a Marine should aspire to be. Who knows what kind of person might join up based on his example? ;)
 
I know! We could just ask everyone, real respectful like. "Do you support Bin Laden? Are you a radical Islamist?"

And of course they'll tell us, won't they.


pax

No, OF COURSE THEY WON'T TELL US. And there is no way of knowing if they are Muslims of the harmless variety or Islamists of the Jihadist type.

But my guess is that someone who has led a life as a devout Muslim (of either variety) would not lie about that, and likely hasn't spent years hiding the fact that they are Muslim.

Which sort of explains my reason for asking the original question, doesn't it?
 
But my guess is that someone who has led a life as a devout Muslim (of either variety) would not lie about that, and likely hasn't spent years hiding the fact that they are Muslim.
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2dogs,

The really dangerous ones have.

Or didn't you watch the news on 9/11?

pax
 
But my guess is that someone who has led a life as a devout Muslim (of either variety) would not lie about that, and likely hasn't spent years hiding the fact that they are Muslim.
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Unless they are a terrorist, in which case they blend in with the populace, based on an interpretation of Islamic law that anything done in the name of Allah is good, even if it would otherwise be a sin. So, we are left with targetting Muslims who have done nothing more than practice their religion. Sounds like a good way to create more terrorists.
 
Don't be frightened. This Muslim retired.


Mohammad Atta, who flew the first plane into the World Trade Center, was a devout Muslim. He was born in Egypt to a lawyer and was a highly intelligent person who communicated with ease with children, old men, professors and people in government. As a student in Germany he was known to be quiet and very religious. Atta regularly prayed on the floor of his office and founded an Islamic prayer and study group at the University in January 1999.
Atta lived and moved easily in Western society while secretly hating it. He was a man on a mission and on the front of his thesis, presented in October 1999, he wrote the following verse from the Koran: " My Prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death belong to Allah, the Lord of the worlds"


Don't be frightened. This Muslim is dead.





(My point being, before the psychics go back to work, is that you can point to Zinni, and I can point to Atta- so what? The fact that there is one good Muslim in the military, or one bad person of Muslim faith who murdered thousands does not directly bear on my original question.)
 
2dogs, notwithstanding your protests, I think by now you've firmly demonstrated that you do believe that Muslims are the problem, rather than "bad" Muslims. If not, why on earth would you use the existence of Atta, who we all know was a terrorist, to refute the point made about a Muslim who contributed to this nation? The only thing they have in common is their religion, and you've made no effort to determine which sect the General belonged to, so obviously their status as Muslims is the sole point you're relying on.
 
And we all know that a good Muslim is a...

...............oh, say, not a murdering Islamofascist- anyone disagree with that?
 
Really, some of you folks would have argued that we shouldn't fight the German's because not all of them were Nazi's.

That would have turned out well.
 
Really, some of you folks would have argued that we shouldn't fight the German's because not all of them were Nazi's
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That's just disingenous. The entire point of the thread that you started was whether we should bar Muslims, including Americans, from the military. It had nothing to do with nationalities regardless of religion.
 
The really dangerous ones have.

pax

So THAT explains Bin Laden running around in a yarmulke!;)
 
That's just disingenous

OK, try this on:

Really, some of you folks would have argued that we shouldn't fight the Nazi's because some of them were Catholic.
 
So THAT explains Bin Laden running around in a yarmulke!
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It does explain the Hama terrorist who dressed up as an Orthodox jew in order to board a bus a few weeks ago, and blow it up.
 
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