Should the terrorist watch list ban you from buying (or owning) a gun.

Should the "terrorist watch list" ban american citizens from owning or buying guns?

  • NRA member. yes it should ban you

    Votes: 6 3.4%
  • NRA member: no it should not ban you

    Votes: 104 59.1%
  • Not NRA member: Yes it should ban you

    Votes: 7 4.0%
  • Not NRA member: No it should not ban you.

    Votes: 59 33.5%

  • Total voters
    176
  • Poll closed .
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thelaststand

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Nov 6, 2009
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138
The last poll wasn't very good and too complicated.

So the options will be as follows

1. NRA member. Yes it should ban you
2. NRA member. No it should not ban you
3. Not NRA member. Yes it should ban you
4. Not NRA member. No it should not ban you.
 
No American citizen should have their Constitutional rights stripped without representation. I am sure it happens but that doesn't make it morraly right.
 
This poll was done but the questions changed and improved. I'm trying to see if MAIG and brady bunch are correct that >80% of NRA members think that the terrorist watch list should ban you from owning a gun.
 
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So far 21 percent of the polltakers here feel that way. I find it funny that anyone who supposedly cares about the RKBA would even vote yes. Gunowners are so divided...
 
Seriously, are some of the people in this forum imbred? I get some of the most idiotic insults/comments.

Astroturf? ***?
 
From a graduate research professor's perspective here, your survey is already flawed per an improper sample. You stated that you...

...trying to see if MAIG and brady bunch are correct that >80% of NRA members think that the terrorist watch list should ban you from owning a gun.

See, the problem is, this ain't the NRA. This is www.thehighroad.org If you want to determine to what extent NRA members agree or disagree with any given matter, you need to sample the NRA members. You cannot draw conclusions to NRA members' beliefs from THR members' answers. Even though you ask who is an NRA member and who is not, that very fact sets the research to determine if there is a statistically significant difference between the perspectives of NRA members versus non-NRA members. Problem there, you don't have random-effects model of sampling. This is a fixed-effects model, with a simple percentage to be presented.

This thread is statistically worthless.

Respectfully,

Prof. Geno
 
true, geno, but also take note that on every forum I've posted this there is a 5:1 ratio of no to yes and the NRA and non NRA ratios are the same. I think this isn't completely useless.
 
I think we can sum it up in "sampling bias"

This is a research project to see if it is worth looking deeper into the issue.
 
it shouldn't ban you, as many average americans have shown up on that list for one silly reason or another. seems as though the terrorists are the only one's not making the list.....and even if they did, they're still able to book an airline seat.


that list is a joke. pretty sad, it could help security immensely if it was taken seriously.
 
This is a research project to see if it is worth looking deeper into the issue.

For what research? Nothing like a good ol' self selecting poll to get some good research going....
 
There is no due process for the "watch list." Any limitation of rights based on it* is invalid and a violation of the rights recognized by the Constitution. (*Including its intended purpose of limiting one's right to fly, as well as buying firearms or whatever else might be based on it.)
 
IMHO, the Terrorist Watch List is probably a good enough idea, IF there was some way to contest it. There doesn't seem to be....

So, Zero's toadies can lock anybody out, and it'll take a change in administrations to fix it if you're not Ted Kennedy.... :cuss:

That being the case, it's just another infringement. But with Zero in office, the Criminals and Terrorists have already won....:fire:

Regards,
 
This thread’s over-simplification brings to mind a lesson that I share with my graduate research students. It is the hundreds-of-years-old fable of The Feeble-minded Farmer.

There was once a feeble-minded, peasant farmer, who after one child asked his wife why she refused him more children? The wife’s terse retort was that perhaps if he better attended to the details of his duties and of her wants, and showed how he loved her, that she would love him more frequently and give him more children.

And so the love-smitten farmer committed himself to daily labor, from sun-up to sun-set. Each morning the farmer showed his affections by diligently attending the crops, and to the soil, and he did so to the exclusion of all other needs and wants in his life. Soon enough, the season drew to an end, and he harvested the crops. The crops were more bountiful than ever! He had enough food to feed yet another mouth. As he delivered the crops to his wife for her approval, she declared herself pregnant, and to be in the very throes of labor.

And so the farmer came to correlate this effort to her birthing, and did continue to toil and labor, to the extent of forsaking any of his own needs or wants, and surely enough, each harvest was more bountiful than the previous. With each harvest, his wife declared to deliver him yet another child. All admired the farmer, and declared him so dutiful a man that surely he and his must be blessed by God Himself. Throughout the whole of five years, the feeble-minded farmer never once thought to ask himself that as he toiled in the fields, to the exclusion even of his very own wants and needs, how then did he tend to his wife’s needs?

But no matter, for the feeble-minded farmer’s wife’s continued to clamorer that the children were the result of his diligence. The neighboring farmers’ did declare that the births must have been blessings from God for his diligence. However, might a more enlightened observer ponder if there perhaps there existed some plausible, alternate explanation for the pregnancies? How could there be any alternative explanation? To be certain, the neighboring farmers did toil less, and lounged about his very house daily enjoying fresh bread, fresh milk and honey with his wife. To be certain, the neighboring farmers’ crops were proportionately decreased in bounty, and their wives never bore them more children.

One implication of the experience is that perhaps the wife never intended to suggest that the farmer needed to learn to attend better to his field duties, but rather that he was lacking in other attentions. As is so common in research, data give rise to new questions which beg answers. Perhaps the feeble-minded farmer ought to have asked why his wife did install a back-door to their one-room shack.

Just because one person, or even a group of people assert a cause and effect to exist, does not make it so.

Respectfully,

Prof. Geno
 
I'm on so many lists now that I'm suprised that I don't hear a knock at my door.

NO American citizen should be denied the right to purchase or own a firearm [of his/her choice] just because they made someone's list. You have to have commited a crime and been proven guilty by a jury of 12...
 
"Member-no" here.

IF there were tighter restrictions on the terrorist watch list (more proof required against the person listed), I would say yes. But as it stands, they need no reason to add a name to the list. Just a suspistion (sp?).

Wyman
 
Being banned from RKBA for cause and being on the Terrorist Watch List are two separate things.
Not allowing felons to own guns is one thing (And in my opinion, only VIOLENT felons should be affected, but I digress) which is a totally different situation from the TWL which is a POLITICAL list that can contain the names of anyone who is not in favor of someone in the employ of the government at any given time.
 
Reading commentaries in the newspapers, I don't think the American public in general understands what the Terrorist Watch List really is.

It seems to me that most folk think it is a reliable list of known Al Queda and muslim-extremist operatives.
 
The good professor (Geno) is right . . . from the perspective of statistical accuracy, any forum-based poll is of no use. However, when poll results like those from the Brady Campaign are so heavily in favor of their position, counter-intuitive (NRA members expressing support of gun control measures) and conducted by a pollster that's politically aligned with the proponent of the poll, you have to wonder what they're up to.

However, I think we make a fundamental mistake when we allow ourselves to be drawn into the poll versus poll approach to determining the extent to which Constitutional rights should be accorded. The Bill of Rights does not derive from a poll, and it is for good reason that the fundamental rights enumerated in the Constitution are not defined or constrained by the popular whims of the moment. If that were the case, unpopular speech and unpopular religious viewpoints would be stifled. Those committing unpopular crimes would not be accorded the right to a jury trial or to legal representation. And, if we were to adopt the Brady Campaign's logic, the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms should wither away when enough popular support can be garnered to infringe upon it.

I'm as committed to anyone to tracking down and stopping terrorists by whatever legal and moral means are necessary. The problem with this proposed approach is that there are no legally enforceable limits on the ability of the government to add any one of us to the terrorist watch list. This non-reviewable act would, under the proposed law, result in an automatic infringement of one's Constitutional rights. Wherever you lie on the political spectrum, you should find this abhorrent.
 
Maybe a better question for the pollsters to ask is, "Should an American citizen be deprived of their Constitutional rights without due process of law?"
I voted non member no. I have been an NRA member in the past & actually intended to rejoin. I have put off doing it due to some financial difficulties. Then recently I learned of some things the NRA has done that really angered me. I guess I need to write a letter to Wayne LaPierre & get it off my chest. Maybe I can forgive them but it will probably take a while.
 
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