Hello everyone, I am new here and was hoping to break the ice with a question in regards to some brass. I purchased brand new Hornady Brass for 257 Wby Mag. and proceeded to full length the brass with a brand new RCBS die. I also reamed the neck lightly, but when I was ready to press some Barnes ttsx 100 grain bullets in, some of the brass was collapsing at the shoulder when I pressed. It collapses perfectly straight, not in any angle or anything like that. I am using an Rcbs press with turret, and it seems to be locked in fine. There is no additional movement when pressing. After ruining like 5 brass, I started press with very small movements and spinning brass a 1/4 turn thinking maybe that the ribs from barnes bullet was not seating just perfect and was causing brass to buckle when pressure was applied. I have some Weatherby brass that has been shot only once, going to try that to see if I get same results. Please give me any input if it seems that I am making an amateur mistake. I have reloaded for several years, but been away from it for a couple, things were a little foggy at first, but it's coming back.
Shoulder on brand new .257 Wby Mag Brass collapsing
- Thread starter Jdscada
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Grumulkin
Member
Two observations:
1. Why did you resize new brass? You didn't need to.
2. If you are crimping, you don't need to do that either.
1. Why did you resize new brass? You didn't need to.
2. If you are crimping, you don't need to do that either.
Magnum Shooter
Member
I would check the bullet diameter just in case wrong bullets got into the box.
New die, so also I would check expander button. It should be just a little smaller than bullet diameter.
Just a thought, both RCBS and Barns are real good companies but anyone can make a mistake.
New die, so also I would check expander button. It should be just a little smaller than bullet diameter.
Just a thought, both RCBS and Barns are real good companies but anyone can make a mistake.
ranger335v
Member
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"...it seems that I am making an amateur mistake."
As Quaid said, the crimp ring in the seater is set too low, there's nothing else it can be.
As Quaid said, the crimp ring in the seater is set too low, there's nothing else it can be.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I agree, without seeing the brass it sounds like you are crimping before the bullet is seated and when you continue to push the bullet into the case it's collapsing.
Guys, thanks for getting back so quickly. I am going to try to answer a few of these questions; I am made a dummy round first, which did not collapse, and I seated it little by little until I acheived OAL as suggested by Barnes, well at least for tsx, could not find any data on ttsx. As for next question, I am not crimping, just seating, but I always resize just in case there is any flaws or imperfections in brass.
Gramulkin, thanks for correction, still learning the lingo to reloading
I'll check individual bullets to assure they are correct diameter. Help me with expander button, are you talking about the resizing die?
Ranger335v, when you say crimp ring, I'm assuming that you think that I'm crimping, but I am just pressing bullet into seating die, never have crimped, so unfamiliar with this technique, unless it's I don't understand how the seating die operates. Or do you mean the depth between the seating die and the shell holder when you actuate press. I have always been told when setting die into press to screw it so that there is around the space of a nickle between seating die face and shell holder with press fully deployed.
Thanks again for your quick responses guys, really impressed with your feedback.
If you have any ideas or wish for me to try something, be glad to try it....
I will try to back off die some more and screw in plunger some more, seemed like there was not much left on the plunger,but I will verify
Gramulkin, thanks for correction, still learning the lingo to reloading
I'll check individual bullets to assure they are correct diameter. Help me with expander button, are you talking about the resizing die?
Ranger335v, when you say crimp ring, I'm assuming that you think that I'm crimping, but I am just pressing bullet into seating die, never have crimped, so unfamiliar with this technique, unless it's I don't understand how the seating die operates. Or do you mean the depth between the seating die and the shell holder when you actuate press. I have always been told when setting die into press to screw it so that there is around the space of a nickle between seating die face and shell holder with press fully deployed.
Thanks again for your quick responses guys, really impressed with your feedback.
If you have any ideas or wish for me to try something, be glad to try it....
I will try to back off die some more and screw in plunger some more, seemed like there was not much left on the plunger,but I will verify
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I know the old way of setting the seating die is with a space but it does not hold true with all dies.
Back the seating die out so that it's not touching the brass at all. Place a resized piece of brass in the shell holder and run the ram all the way up. Then screw the seating die in until it just touches the brass and back of just a hair. Lock down the die and you are correctly adjusted to seat without a crimp. Of course then you adjust the stem to seat the bullet to the correct depth.
Back the seating die out so that it's not touching the brass at all. Place a resized piece of brass in the shell holder and run the ram all the way up. Then screw the seating die in until it just touches the brass and back of just a hair. Lock down the die and you are correctly adjusted to seat without a crimp. Of course then you adjust the stem to seat the bullet to the correct depth.
gamestalker
member
Place an empty piece of brass in the shell holder. Then fully extend the ram / press to full. Now thread your seating die in until you feel it contacting the brass, once you feel contact back the seating die out 1-1/2 turns and lock it down. Now back the press ram completely down ram and place a bullet in as you normally would and proceed to seat bullets while adjusting the seating stem down / up, not the entire die, just the stem, until you have the seating depth desired.
When the seating die makes contact with the brass it is effecting a crimp, which is not necessary for a bolt action cartridge.
GS
When the seating die makes contact with the brass it is effecting a crimp, which is not necessary for a bolt action cartridge.
GS
ranger335v
Member
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"...do you mean the depth between the seating die and the shell holder when you actuate press."
Yes. You did not intend to crimp but you probably are because the seater is turned down a bit too far.
"I have always been told when setting die into press to screw it so that there is around the space of a nickle between seating die face and shell holder with press fully deployed."
Now you see why we can't use a formula to properly adjust any die; it will work sometimes, sometimes not. We just need to adjust our dies to get the results we seek.
Do the post #9 thing and put an empty case on the fully raised ram. Then screw the seater die down to light contact with the crimp ring - you will feel it - and back it off a quarter or a half turn (.016" - .032") to insure you don't accidently contact the case mouth during seating and all should be well.
Good luck!
Yes. You did not intend to crimp but you probably are because the seater is turned down a bit too far.
"I have always been told when setting die into press to screw it so that there is around the space of a nickle between seating die face and shell holder with press fully deployed."
Now you see why we can't use a formula to properly adjust any die; it will work sometimes, sometimes not. We just need to adjust our dies to get the results we seek.
Do the post #9 thing and put an empty case on the fully raised ram. Then screw the seater die down to light contact with the crimp ring - you will feel it - and back it off a quarter or a half turn (.016" - .032") to insure you don't accidently contact the case mouth during seating and all should be well.
Good luck!
beatledog7
Member
Some presses cam over, meaning the ram actually goes higher then drops slightly at full throw. With such a press, if you set the die to kiss the case mouth at full throw, you're crimping.
ReloaderFred
Member
It sounds to me like the bullet is getting stuck on the case mouth, and not sliding inside the neck of the case. I would chamfer the case mouth to allow the bullet to pass by the sharp edge.
Neck expanders are always a couple thousandths less than the diameter of the bullet. If they weren't, there wouldn't be any neck tension to hold the bullet in the case.
I always process new brass. I just purchased 500 .444 Marlin brass from Midway, and while full length sizing it, one case stopped short of fully entering the die. It acted like a smaller case was stuck inside, but what actually happened was a case left the factory without a flash hole. If I hadn't processed this brass, this case may have ended being primed and loaded, but it would have only gone "pop", not "boom".
Hope this helps.
Fred
Neck expanders are always a couple thousandths less than the diameter of the bullet. If they weren't, there wouldn't be any neck tension to hold the bullet in the case.
I always process new brass. I just purchased 500 .444 Marlin brass from Midway, and while full length sizing it, one case stopped short of fully entering the die. It acted like a smaller case was stuck inside, but what actually happened was a case left the factory without a flash hole. If I hadn't processed this brass, this case may have ended being primed and loaded, but it would have only gone "pop", not "boom".
Hope this helps.
Fred
“I also reamed the neck lightly” That right there should have taken care of the problem, 'unless’ for some unknown reason the neck sizer plug has been removed or is too small in diameter. I do not have a lot of competition seater dies but, the ones I have eliminate the twilight zone when seating bullets, the bullet is centered on the case mouth before the ram is raised, and? there is no crimp zone.
F. Guffey
F. Guffey
Thanks to everyone for all their input, backing off the die and driving the plunger down did the trick. Did a few more loads with no problems at all, well, with the loads anyways, the gun so far is very questionable, but that is in another thread. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE !!!!!!
Kp321
Member
The Weatherby double radius shoulder does not have the strength that an angled shoulder does. I have had lots of trouble necking Weatherby brass down from 300 to 7mm without collapsing the shoulder. My first mistake was annealing the brass. The neck needed it but it weakened the shoulder. I had less loss with no anneal.
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