SHTF rifle for $1,000.00

[md7]

Correia,

The area I live in is mostly rural. about five or six neighbors around, the closest being about 250 -300 yards. After Katrina, robberies were pretty bad in our area. A good bit of theft even out in the rural areas. We were without power for about 4 weeks, but some parts of our nearest town had power. We had to go into town for a few items, and gas when we could get some. Our town did not get too bad, but two nearby cities got kind of bad. Looting, fights at the gas stations, a few murders took place at gas stations, and other places in the surrounding counties.

This rifle would be primarily for the protection of me and my wife. i would probably be the only one to use it.

Friends and family live about 10 minutes away. they mostly have .40 sw, .38 specials, and a few bolt action hunting rifles. 30-06 and .270 wins.

I also have a .270 and .243 bolt action rifles, and a 12 ga. pump shotgun. So I have rifles that would be suitable for hunting. The SHTF rifle would need to be primarily a defense rifle. High capacity, reliable, something that I could put in the seat of my truck and go into town if I had to. Something to defend the homestead as well. If things got really bad, it would need to function in hot, wet environments for extended periods of time.

I hope that helps clarify.
Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Cowboybootnut]

AR-15, several 30 rd mags, 1000 rds ammo, belt/pouches to carry mags. Make sure the mags are reliable, and get use to the rifle.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Md7, I really think a semi 308 would be good in your situation. You may need to reach out there on occassion. Ammo is slightly heavier than 223, but not a problem, unless you need ammo in enough volume to feed a belt fed for some reason. In which case you're screwed regardless.

A siaga in 308 or an entry level FAL that has proven reliability would fit your needs quite well I think. Under $1000.00 w/ammo and mags should be easy if you shop a little bit.

Also sounds like in your area 308 wouldn't be hard to *acquire* should the need arise.

 

[Limeyfellow]

I would probrobly go the fal route or some such. Sure the Ar15 is nice but unless you go up to a larger size upper, I perfer more stopping power out my way than a .223 for taking down larger animals for food and still have something more than suited for personal defense.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Also consider other uses for your rifle. SHTF not all too often so it would be a waste to spend a grand on something utterly useless

 

[Evil Monkey]

NATO NATO NATO NATO NATO NATO NATO
NATO NATO NATO NATO NATO NATO NATO
NATO NATO NATO NATO NATO NATO NATO!!!

IMO, all SHTF weaponry should use NATO standard ammo. There are simply too many guns chambered for and too much NATO ammo to leave alone. Plus, you can get more from those "uniformed beings" that are no longer a threat.

As for pistols, I don't know. I think you're good with any kind, 9mm, 40, 45, whatever. You won't be using pistols alot anyway.

Here's what I would choose.

AR180b $575
20 magazines, about $200
1,000 rds of ammo, about $160
some kind of scope, around $50

When you run out of 5.45mm or 7.62mmR, or etc., it's over. You have to find a NATO firearm. If you start with a NATO firearm, chances are you'll never get rid of it, thus, you don't have to start over learning how to use another weapon.

 

[Correia]

Now that's what I'm talking about.

At 250-300 yards, anything will work. Either 7.62x39, .223, or .308. (those are the primary semi-auto calibers out there).

At those ranges I wouldn't see the need for anything with an HBAR, as that would just be unneccesary weight.

At that point I would go to your local store and fondle everything there to see which rifles suit you the best.

At $1,000 for weapon, accessories, and magazines, that is going to rule out a lot of options. But that is fine, there are plenty of other guns that fit into that budget constraint. (my last AR cost $1,600 before I put an optic on it).

If you aren't concerned about capacity, I would take a hard look at a .223 Saiga. (for honesty's sake, let me state that I'm a gun dealer, and a distributor for RAAC, but I also sell many other brands of rifle, but if you were to come into my store with the above criteria, that is what I would probably put in your hands first)

$290 allows you to purchase several cases of ammo, some extra magazines, and still stay well below budget. .223/5.56 is the most common cartridge in America now I believe. Light weight, light recoil.

The main disadvantage is that it only takes 10 rounds magazines. This can be remedied pretty easy though. You can find the instructions on how to convert these guns to a real AK configuration and make them take 30 round magazines online.

If you decided you wanted to step up the oomph factor, I would take a hard look at the .308 version of the same gun. There are now 20 round magazines available for this gun. (because I built them )

Hey, phoglund, the first 360 magazines are shipping this week. We're finally done!

As much as I love 7.62x39, ammo supply for it has been real hit or miss lately. Whereas .308 and .223 are standard American cartridges. And worse case scenario, those are the cartridges that are going to be used by the military and law enforcement.

 

[Correia]

some kind of scope, around $50

Just a note on optics. You really get what you pay for. I promise you that a $50 optic will lose adjustment or break when you use it hard.

And the first thing you should do is buy two cases of ammo. Shoot the first one so that you and your rifle become good friends first and keep the other one under the bed. Then replace the first case and repeat.

Plus by putting 1,000 rounds through your gun right off the bat, you will be more skilled with it, confident, and you will know if it has any mechanical problems. (all guns have mechanical problems. If you your particular favorite hasn't malfunctioned yet, you haven't shot it enough)

 

[SnakeEater]

JLD PTR-91

That pretty much says it all.

 

[Ian]

If $1000 were my total budget, I think I might actually get a No4 Enfield.

Hear me out here, I think there's more merit here than you might expect. The Enfield gives you a significant improvement in shootability over cheaper semiautos like the AK or SKS - better sights and trigger, mainly (also a less threatening appearance, which may or may not be worth something).

The Enfield has a very fast bolt throw if you practice with it, and also a 10-round magazine. It's definitely faster to reload than an SKS, given equal training on each.

Ammo cost is much more than other calibers, since surplus .303 has dried up. But, the budget would include a single-stage reloading press. This would allow you to fine-tune your ammo, rather than being stuck with whatever was available at low cost. For instance, you could load up your "serious" ammo with high quality expanding bullet for far less than the cost of buying several boxes of premium ammo.

Finally, the Enfield is a more versatile rifle than most of the cheap semis. It's much better suited to hunting use or target shooting than the generic AKs and SKSs. Like someone said, no sense making your SHTF rifle just sit in the safe until the world does end.

So, my budget would look like this:

No4 Enfield: $150 at a gun show or via internet forum
Single-stage reloading press: $25 (possibly as cheap as free, if you look enough)
Other reloading tools (scale, funnel, dies): $75
Brass, powder, primers and bullets for 1000 rounds: $350

That leaves $400 for either local training, or a starting point to save up for a trip to a big-name shooting school.

 

[cosine]

Subscribed, just so I don't lose Ian's post.

 

[EvisceratorSrB]

Where did the faith in the shotgun go? For HD, shotty hands down. 18'' 870 Express w/ buckshot will do you very well. Perhaps if the SHTF at 100m+ everyone else's opinion I pretty much agree with.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

I live right outside New Orleans. I carried my M1A after Katrina. It stayed slung on my shoulder as I cleaned up debris around my house. I wanted any potential looters scanning the nieghborhoods to see that I was home, and I was armed. A bit out of the price range you have set. But a darned fine firearm to consider.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Amphibious Jeep With Wings

Yeah, that's the rifle I want.

Weighs 2 pounds, no recoil, shoots every kind of ammo, hides in a pack, hunting legal, varmint taker, costing $150 and using stuff I can buy for $10/100 rounds.

What? They don't make one? Damn.

On the other hand, what if I could find a PAIR of rifles that could do that?

The 1894C I can get for under $400 (or under $500 if I want the fancy furniture). And Kel-tec does an unusual rifle that works well in a capacity as an emergency/survival weapon.

(Waits for laughter to subside)

A month ago I would not have thought of this. I was agonizing between the 1894C (that's .357 and .38 for those who confuse it with the 336 in 30-30) and something in an m4gery. Kind of liked the Dissipator.

I decided to try something new, and picked up the Kel-tec SU-16 (Alpha). I've spent the last couple of evenings running radom samples of good/bad/ugly ammo through it. It feeds and cycles stuff that my friend's new Armalite won't eat. Mechanically simpler than the AR, borrows the gas piston & op rod from the AK/FN series. Takes real AR mags of all capacities. Built-in rail for optics.

Weighs some 5 lbs. Folds up. Holds spare mags in stock. NATO chambered. Eats EVERYTHING in either .223 or 5.56 (well, nearly -- there is a hollow point it doesn't like).

Oh -- it costs about $500 (less if you shop; saw one at the show for $465).

I could seriously see sticking one in my pack while carrying the Marlin. Between the two, they eat ammo you will find just about anywhere. The Marlin looks tame, doesn't raise fur, but is a true big game rifle. Which I doubted until this week.

Dude showed up at one of my favorite hangouts with pictures of the hunt he and his son just finished in Utah. Son got an elk. Very proud. Dad was away from his rifle when the Bison herd showed up. Pulled S&W 686, placed a single shot of cheap .357 (generic gun show bag ammo) at 70 yards. Bison walked ten feet and fell over. The round went all the way through, taking out a rib. From a 4" revolver. Cool photo: grinning dad, 1000 lb steak-on-the-hoof, 4" stainless sidearm.

At that point I understood that Dan Wesson was right, the .357 really IS a viable game round. And fired from a carbine you get +300 or more fps, better accuracy, and more range.

Same rifle shooting .38+p would be fine for social work.

And the Kel-tec is there for those moments of intensity requiring an auto-loader.

I'm not suggesting that the SU-16 is a battle rifle with the duty cycle of such a weapon. But you can send thousands of rounds through it, and it doesn't break. (According to all test data I can find.)

So, there you are. Two popular ammo families, light weight, socially acceptable appearance, sidearm capatibility, social work, and dinner.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

quote:
At that point I understood that Dan Wesson was right, the .357 really IS a viable game round. And fired from a carbine you get +300 or more fps, better accuracy, and more range.
----------------------------
My FIL shot/killed an elk with his .357 lever gun years ago. A lever .357 would certainly fit in md7' rpice with lots left over for ammo. I dont doubt the effectiveness of a .357 out of a carbine as a seriously effective round

 

[kfranz]

The Enfield has a very fast bolt throw if you practice with it, and also a 10-round magazine. It's definitely faster to reload than an SKS, given equal training on each.

I'd like to see this performed in real life. The claim that you can load a 10 round magazine with 2 5 round strippers faster than 1 10 round makes me wanna see it in action.

 

[Ian]

I say it's faster primarily because of the higher quality of Enfield clips compared to SKS clips, in my experience. The rounds in my Enfield clips don't stick or wobble around, like rounds in SKS clips do (again, in my experience). I can load a clip into the Enfield in once fast, smooth motion, whereas loading an SKS clip takes some wiggling, and also requires moving the rifle farther from the shoulder than the Enfield.

To be fair, I haven't ever timed myself with on an SKS reload. I have taken my Enfield to rifle school, though, and pretty well held my own against my fellow students with ARs and AKs.

 

[mkh100]

I like the idea of the foldable kel-tech in my pack.....but with an MBR in my hands.

 

[AndyC]

Mine would be an FAL in Para-config - might go a wee bit more than $1,000, though.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'd get a PSL and a few thousand rounds of ammo. Accurate, tough rifle. Not exactly a battle rifle, and not exactly a fine tuned sniper rifle. But with elements of both.

 

[flip180]

I'm just thinking SKS for some reason. You mentioned putting it in your truck and going to town with it. I wouldn't worry too much about an SKS getting bumped around in a pick up. I'd either put a mojo peep sight or a set of these on it http://www.tech-sights.com. That'll give you a better set of sights to get better accuracy out of the 7.62x39 round to cover anything in that 300 yard range between you and your neighbors.

Flip.

 

[eab]

Couple notes from what I have been reading.....

You can no longer get JLD PTR-91s for under $900.00 right now. I have checked it out. Maybe last year this time, not now though.
Keltec, I really would not go there. If you a rifle for SHTF, you want something that has been military proven. The Keltec has , from what I have read, stopped working during several fighting rifle courses.

My 2 cents for what its worth....

I went with a CETME. ~$500.00 for the gun. Mags can be picked up for ~$1.50 Ammo is more pricy, kinda gets yah. I like it, low felt recoil, good round, proven weapon system. Pain to clean though. If I had to do it over again. I might go with the AK-47. Just cause ammo is cheap and that means you can shoot it more which means you are more profecient. If you really need more then 200 rounds or so you would be carrying on body. You are in a heap big a trouble friend and if you are not dead there should be some "extra" weapons and ammo lying around.

 

[dfaugh]

1 CETME + 3 SKSs + $200 worth of ammo.

 

[CornCod]

I would get one of the more expensive AK's. I hear that the Yugoslavian (I guess they are now technically Serbian) AK's are just splendid. They are in the 600-700 range. Wish I could afford one! (I "make do" with a Saiga) Then you can get Silver Bear Hollowpoints for hunting and Wolf FMJ for combat and you are in business.

 

[david_the_greek]

love my ar15. Picked up 20 teflon coated D&H mahs for $180 something. The rifle itself can be had at a reasonable price from companies like STAG. infact you could assemble a seperate lower and upper (or build) for even less. They are fun to shoot. Not intimidating to learn on. Very intimidating to look at. and heck, who doesn't want to be a mall ninja? money is the only thing holding me back. I find it superior just because the rifle is so customizable to your needs and you can change you configuration easily as you realise exactly what those needs are. There is tons of info and people skilled on the ar15 that getting help usually isn't a problem. granted you would kinda need to get help before SHTF. so If I were spending another $1000.... oh wait I probably will be..... I'd pick up a stag lower and upper (or any company, this is just an example). that will put you back around 675-725. if you get it with some magpul upgrades it will be like 800. pick yourself up some decent teflon (or dry lube, teflon looks prettier though ) coated magazines. and use the little money you have left on some plinking ammo. get some brass case wolf (partisan) or radway or guat. to start with just buy a few mags, spend the majority (like $150) on ammo to begin with so that you become familiar with the weapon. After that buy H&K magazines and decent NATO spec ammo. or some fancy stuff. those last two steps is were the cost goes up. As you get more money and more time goes on, stock up some cleaning/basic repair supplies and if your wife lets you get to a training course.
And thats my certified opinion..... certified my whom I don't know