Side by side vs. Over Under?

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hobbeeman

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My son has fallen in love with a friend's over/under 20g. His buddies shoot at a local club every week and I would like to accomodate him in this. What, if any, is the difference between the way a traditional side by side shoots and an Over/Under? Can an over/under be had, worth having, for under $300? I'm not having much luck finding them at the pawn shops, which makes me think that people generally keep them when they get one.
 
Decent O/Us start around a grand. Even used, figure on more than $300.

Clays guns need to be durable. Few or no inexpensive doubles of either sort are durable.

Sorry....
 
While you're very unlikely to find a worthwhile new O/U or SxS in the $300 range there are serviceable ones available in the $400-$500 range, but it depends on the level of shooting you plan to do. Serious clay shooters can put a few hundred rounds a week thru a gun and no $500 model is really up to the task. On the other hand if you're a more causal shooter who'll put maybe 200-400 rounds a month thru a gun then yes, there are some choices.

I fall into the causual shooter group, and I like to shoot different guns. Many people have good luck with Baikals (now called Spartan imported by Remington). Others like their Stoegers. If you can afford a bit more Lanbars and Veronas are highly recommended. Nowadays you see a lot of Turkish imports that run pretty cheap. IN GENERAL, the Turkish guns seem to be inconsistant in quality and I would stay away from them for now. They haven't been around long enough and personally I can't afford to help develop their track record. I have a Baikal IZH-27 (an O/U) in 20 ga that actually has pretty wood (Baikals are not known as "lookers"). I've shot about 2K rounds thru it in about 10 months with no problems and really like it - cost $425 in California) I also have a 20 ga Savage Fox-b I bought used but in excellent shape. It was a workingman's SxS, pretty much the same gun as a Stevens 311. These guns aren't fancy but they have a solid reputation. They aren't made anymore but there are still plenty of good used ones available and you can still get parts without any problem - cost $325.

So the best answer is to honestly assess your anticipated use and budget accordingly. There are some serviceable, even good guns available for modest prices if your needs are also modest. Consider too - your son may be in love with an O/u but he may really just want his own gun to shoot with his bud's. If $300 is a fairly hard price range there are some good choices in pumps both new and used. A Winchester Model 12 even in field grade is considered a classic and they can found used in good condition for around $250 (some consider it the best pump ever made - pick one up and you'll know why right away). And if your son turns into a dedicated shooter, well no shooter I know regrets having a good pump gun in the collection. They are solid, time proven, and basic. Proper practice is what makes a shooter expert and is far more important than the type of gun being used.

RE: O/U versus SxS, Serious clay shooters overwhelmingly prefer O/U's because of the single barrel line of sight. Most (not all) SxS's you see at the range are shot by guys warming up for hunting season. For some reason the SxS double barrels just lends itself better to hunting and they are a comfortable, often loved field gun. I don't hunt but as a casual clay shooter, I do better with my O/U but the SxS is more fun. JMHO.
 
Good advice given so far. You pretty much get what you pay for in O/U's and SxS's.

Find what kind of clay games your boy likes to shoot the most. If he likes them all he needs to find an all-a-round gun. A good pump gun will last several lifetimes if taken care of, but it is not the quickest second shot on a bird in a beginners hands. Autos are also great for clays but if you are gonna reload you have to pick up hulls. Good autos of the Beretta, Remington, and Winchester lines all start at about $650 to $900.
 
just out of curiousity, what are you going to do when you son falls in LOVE with his friends SISTER :eek:
 
Luckily I don't yet have to worry about the "friend's sister" He still is :barf: about girls, though I think that will change probably in two weeks when school starts :eek:

I have seen the Stoegers and I like the way they feel, in the store, but neither of us have fired one yet.

What about the EAA O/U's that CDNN is advertising for $349-429?
 
i use a stoeger sxs in 28 ga too bunny hunt with mines lasted 5 or 6 yrs without a hiccup also use it on dove no idea how many shells been through it but its a bunch
 
EAA or European American Arms is an importer of various guns not a manufacturer. (so is Stoeger for that matter but they've been consistant for a while in their products). EAA shotguns used to be the Baikals, which are Russian made. Mine is one of these in 20 ga with a model number IZH-27. Baikal shotguns are now beng imported by Remington and sold under the Spartan brand name. However, there are still a lot of the old EAA Baikals on the shelves and they are generally less $$ than the Spartans. Same gun though - the possible difference being if you need any after purchase service. EAA has pledged to honor all warranty work on Baikals sold under their label. Remington I assume handles Spartan claims. I have no experience with either company so I can't provide an opinion there. Still Baikals have been around a while now and are pretty common so parts and service should not be a real problem regardless.

I can't get to CDNN at the moment to see exactly what you're talking about but if they're Baikals then I can recommend them as a solid basic O/U. Mine has received regular moderate use and I've had no problems. I would add these caveats though especially if buying mail order.

- Baikals tend to be very stiff opening when new. They generally loosen up after about 1000 rounds or so but they don't get sloppy. By itself you shouldn't consider this a problem.

- The front sight bead is a little weak. I replaced mine with a Hi-Viz screw-in bead I got at Wal-Mart for about $5. I'm told there are also longer/larger magnetic Hi-Viz sights available that also work well.

- Baikals are working guns and are about function more than form. I've seen some with very pretty wood (I like mine), I've also seen some stocks that look like they were hacked out of a 2x4. Some people find them a bit heavy which in some respects is a good thing. There's been a general improvement in the last few years but since EAA is clearing their shelves who knows.

- Baikal stocks generally have a cast to them (cast on/cast off??) that favors right handed shooters and the degree varies gun to gun. This can bother left handed shooters like myself. I was lucky and came across a gun with both pretty wood and an almost neutral cast.

The last two points argue in favor of being able to pick up and shoulder the exact gun before purchasing. Regards appearances, don't take this to mean all Baikals look horrible, they don't at all, but they can look rough. If you spend a little effort working on the wood, stripping, restaining and finishing as needed, you can make it quite pretty. A certain amount of this is recommended anyway since the finish is not considered Baikal's strong suit. Some people think this a major drawback, but consider, even ugly Baikals handle pretty well and it's the strength of the metal and the mechanisms inside that make it a good buy. Pretty guns with poor internals become expensive mantle decorations rather quickly. I personally am very pleased with the appearance and perfomance of my Baikal and would have no reservations about buying another.

I would almost bet, if you check around at your gun club that someone there is shooting a Baikal. Don't know about your situation, but some some gun clubs can be rather snooty about who shoots what and won't even bother about lower end guns. Don't be discouraged by attitudes, find someone who owns and shoots the gun and they might even let your son check it out.

Don't forget to stress gun safety and good range manners in all this. Young shooters who respect what they're doing and handle themselves properly will often get some valuable lessons from the old dogs at these ranges. Good ears are as important as good eyes and quick hands.
 
I too have a Baikal 28 ga. They are a very sturdy gun. Another one you may consider is CZ or DeHaan they have sxs for around $600 or so. I know of a couple guys that have them and they are nice guns. I shoot sporting clays weekly and I sometimes use a Ruger Red Label O/U, other times I use a Fox Sterlingworth SxS and sometimes I use me Baikal SxS. I find if the gun fits and you are comfortable with it it makes no differance whether you use a O/U or SxS. My scores are generally the same using any of my guns. I once had a guy tell me that you are better off with a cheep gun that fits you than an expensive gun that doesn't.
 
If you look around, you can sometimes find some deals on older citori's that have the fixed chokes in remarkably good shape. My brother found one at a garage sale that some old guy was selling that he only wanted $450 or something like that for--apparently that was about what he had paid for it back when.

For newer ones...one shop near me has these "Gazelle" I believe they were models that are made in turkey for $599 that look surprisingly good, and a fairly prominent gunsmith that frequents another forum has said he bought one and tore it all apart and its very well made and he's been using it for a year or so for clays with no problems with many many rounds through it. My brother had an older model of the ones that walmart is selling these days--can't think what the brand is just now--that again he bought from a yard sale I believe for around $200 that seemed surprisingly well made as well, and his actually had fairly nice walnut on it (I believe the newer ones have hardwood stocks). So if you look around, you can find some deals on O/U's. The Baikals, btw, are ugly as anything and have stocks like a Red Ryder, but have rep's for being sturdy little workhorses that last forever. Apparently lots of game warden types overseas like them as guns that take a beating and keep on ticking.
 
Both the CZs and the DeHaans are made by the Turkish manufacturer Huglu. CZ of course has an excellent reputation for the guns they make so hopefully their attention to detail will be reflected in all products they put their name to. DeHaan is a real live independent dealer who so far has earned an excellent reputation for his customer service and support for his products. Reportedly he has each gun inspected before it is shipped. Mossberg also sells Turkish O/Us made by Khan - you would hope their name would impart quality but the reviews I've seen are inconsistent. Yildiz is another Turkish make that gets decent reviews.

Obviously the Turkish manufacturers can make good quality guns but while they be good bang for the buck, the good ones aren't exactly cheap - they compete with other well thought of mid-priced guns like Lanbars and Veronas. My reluctance is with the value priced Turkish guns you see for $300-$400, because they still seem like a work in progress and personally I won't pay for their learning curve. They aren't that common yet so parts and repair support are sketchy. User reviews are still very inconsistant - If you get a good one, it's a good one, otherwise no amount of work seems to make them right. The day will probably come when they'll be another OK option for the casual shooter but I don't think it's here yet. Especially when there are other more certain choices available.
 
I have a Stoeger Coachgun in SxS 12GA with which I'm pretty pleased. So I recently picked up a Stoeger O/U .410 for yard varmints at a gunshow... they had a 20GA for the same low price.
 
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