sidearms during WWII

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"a .45 acp revolver would work just fine for that."

That was my Dad's line of thinking with his .32 Ruby.
He knew he wasn't going to trade pistol shots with an Infantry squad armed with rifles and machineguns and come out ahead.

This is dad's old Alkartasuna Ruby
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I guess none of you have ever heard of Alvin York. Sgt. York that is and what he did with a 1911 .45 in WW1, right?

Nor have any of you read S.L.A. Marshal's book, "The River and the Gauntlet" (as in Korea.)

Or 'Brennan's War' (Vietnam).

Or 'With the Old Breed' (Saipan and Okinawan.)

Or "Shots Fired in Anger' (Burma and the 5307th)

Yes handguns were used by GIs to kill and used often, especially in Asia.

Deaf
 
My Grandad carried a Thompson and had a NAZI Browning (FN)Hi-Power P-35 he liberated from a German Officer who no longer had use of it. Battle of the Bulge trophy.

Now a trophy of my gun cabinet.
 
When my dad was being shipped home after the war, he was stuck in a temporary unit made up of men from all over the theater and officered mostly by rear echelon supply and transportation guys from England. He said that on the troopship home orders came down that all captured weapons were to be turned in. The knew this meant that their hard-won war trophies were simply being stolen so these rear echelon officers would have some souvenirs. Some guys dutifully turned them in while others hid their Lugers and what not in vents or wherever they could.
When the inevitable search began, one GI stood near an open porthole and with his Luger in hand and when the young MP Lt. demanded it, he simply flipped it out the porthole and said something I can't print here.
 
If you get a chance read the book 'With The Old Breed on Pelilu and Okinawa' by Eugene Sledge. It was one of the books that the HBO series 'The Pacific' was based on. Slege was in a USMC morter crew. While he was issued a carbine nearly all carried a pistol (1911s) and would hand off a Thompson depending on what they were doing.

Another really good memoir of WWII is 'Shots Fired in Anger' by Lt.Col John George. George was a big gun guy prior to the war. Competitive shooter etc. He even took his personal bolt action Winchester with a scope with him so he could get in some unofficial sniping on the side. Much of his memoir is about what kinds of guns he came across and what worked and what didn't. He was in the Army but fought in the Pacific on Guadalcanal and later was in Merrill's Marauders in the China/Burma theater. He was a Lieutenant, later captain. He thought the Garand was the best military rifle in the war but was too heavy and too hard and too awkward to reload under fire. He loved the M1 carbine which he thought was the perfect jungle weapon. He thought the Thompson was great for close in fighting but was too heavy and was/should have been replaced by the carbine. He carried and liked the 1911 though he thought it was too heavy. He felt a lighter semi auto in a smaller caliber (9mm) would make an ideal battle handgun. He said just about everyone obtained or tried to obtain pistols. It was the best, most secure thing you could do will sitting in a foxhole every night while the Japs probed the lines.
 
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In early 1942, my Dad, age 91, was a Sargeant in the 98th Mule Pack Artillery Battalion, stationed at Fort Lewis, WA. He told me about a march his battalion had made around the Olympic Peninsula, in response to a supposed Japanese landing on the coast. He laughed about being issued with exactly 6 rounds, in half-moon clips, for his 1917 Colt .45 Revolver.
 
who carried the M1911 during WWII?
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My dad was a machine gunner in the army infantry. He carried a 1911 but claims he never fired it in anger. He said the engagements with the Nazis were at ranges far beyond what the 1911 was meant for. When they were sent out on patrols where the fighting could get up close and personal, they usually carried the M3 grease gun.
 
Deaf Smith said:
If you guys watched that show, "Band Of Brothers", by the time they got to Foy everyone and their dog had a 1911 (and some, like Shifty, sent back home a bunch of captured pistols.)

Those that were issued, had. Those determined to get one, got one.

Deaf
Click to expand...

They were part of the 101st airborne which is an elite unit so naturally they would have one.


Sent from Droid Incredible on Verizon Wireless
 
Here's a picture of my Father in Law in front of his Greyhound scout vehicle. There are 3 men squatting in front of the Greyhound, he is in the middle. You can't really see it, but he has a shoulder holster on with a 1911 in it. He was the guy that stood up in the top and looked for the enemy. He was in the battle of the Bulge and 2 other major battles. I still have that holster.


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One time he was sticking out of the top and he looked to his right and a German soldier had his rifle aimed right at him. The gunner in the scout car behind him opened up with his machine gun and killed him. They went back the next day and Lewis found the soldier and relieved him of this pistol. As far as we can tell it is a "Ruby" variant made in the Eibar region of Spain in the 1920's. It is chambered in 7.62 (32ACP). I even have the "bring back" papers for it.

WWII-2.jpg

My father landed at Anzio and since he was the smallest man in his squad, he had to carry the BAR. I asked him if he also had a pistol, and he said "No, it was all I could do to carry the BAR". He said by the end of the first day, half of his squad was dead.
 
quick question about the 1917 everyone is talking about the halfmoon clips
can they use the modern fullmoon clips?
 
Onmilo said:
josephbw
That is a Ruby.
Chances are that dead German got that gun off a dead Frenchman.
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Maybe, maybe not.

Need to check that Ruby for Nazi marks. If not Nazi inspection stamp, then yep, it was confiscated off someone else.

The Nazis did use all kinds of pistols as substitute standard so look for the Nazi eagle acceptance mark on the gun somewhere.

Deaf
 
My wife's best friend's father was in Europe during WWII. He returned with a Walther P38. The Walther has mixed slide and frame, non matching serial numbers. AND, a sheared sear.
P38Sear2.jpg

I recieved the pistol several years after he passed on. His family pretty much forgot he had it. Was stored away in a drawer. The family was pretty non gun oriented, and I cannot imagine it being shot much if at all once he returned from the war.

I am curious as to, if he liberated it from a German who didn't make it from not having a functioning sidearm.

I have since replaced the sear with a new old stock piece I ordered and it functions quite well.
 
Very doubtful.
The Germans no doubt did a lot of things wrong to lose the war.
Namely, letting Hitler run it instead of his mostly excellent Generals.

But issuing mismatched parts weapons that didn't work wasn't one of them.

The P-38 in question was more then likely put together as a souvenir from a pile of surrendered gun parts after the occupation.

rc
 
rcmodel said:
Ever shot a 1917 S&W???
I thought not.

I sure would not cry.
I would just go scrounge up a rucksack full of half-moon clip loaded .45 ACP ammo & BEE Happy I had a real good handgun at all!

With a little practice, you can reload a 1917 with clips and keep up a pretty accurate rate of fire.

Besides that?
If one of Pattens tankers needed a handgun at all?
It was probably to blow his brains out before he burned to death trapped inside a blown-up Sherman tank.

A .45 ACP revolver would work just fine for that.

rc
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Yep.
 
I assumed and you know what happens when you assume, that the German army also had platoon or division based armorers, who collected various fire arms reworked them and re issued them to the troops. AKA taking several P 38s and assembling them and issuing them regardless of the serial number matching on the sides. Obviously the broken sear would have happened AFTER being released by the armorer, probably in the heat of battle in which it quickly (ala auto'd off the whole magazine) became useless to the soldier in question.... why he so easily gave it up.. ie out of his cold dead hands.
 
I did not see where any one said any thing about the 38 that was used. I have one 38sp and the 1917 the 1917 shot hoarder than the 1911 for it did not lose from the blow back to reload. you can buy 45ACP rim brass for the 1917 I have some that I got from Mid-Way USA.
 
^^^^^^

It is my understanding that no energy is lost from the slide function of a locked breech action. The much bigger velocity killer is the cylinder gap from a revolver venting pressure. I am not and expert, just what I have always heard. Saw a couple tests done with the .45 acp in 1911 platforms and revolver platforms, with the same barrel length the auto loader always had higher velocity. IIRC it was not a very scientific test though just a guy shooting over a chrony.
 
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firesky101 said:
^^^^^^

It is my understanding that no energy is lost from the slide function of a locked breech action. The much bigger velocity killer is the cylinder gap from a revolver venting pressure. I am not and expert, just what I have always heard. Saw a couple tests done with the .45 acp in 1911 platforms and revolver platforms, with the same barrel length the auto loader always had higher velocity. IIRC it was not a very scientific test though just a guy shooting over a chrony.
Click to expand...
Actually that's quite true. On the average, same load, and barrel length the simi-auto will get higher velocity.

Deaf
 
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