Sig arm brace -- important legal update

[Hacker15E]

My thoughts are just the opposite. I can't see paying $150 for an "arm brace" when an SBR stamp is $200.

The arm brace is a poor substitute for a real shoulder stock.

Let's not forget that that are a bunch of military folks who are moving state-to-state every couple of years, without much choice of which states they're being moved to.

That makes it nearly impossible for those people to own NFA firearms.

The brace suddenly now allows those same people to own SBR-like firearms.

 

[kimberkid]

. Until that time the brace will do in place of a stock on those firearms I prefer in an SBR configuration.

VooDoo

That's kind of what I'm doing from now on, however there are some guns like my V-51 pistol that needs a stock and is one I'm still going to SBR ... However my C-93 pistol and PTR-32 will be fine in a arm brace until they do away with SBR ... Just for grins I put my HK arm brace on my CA-89 just to see how it looks ... It's not bad but I SBR'd it back in 07 so I usually have a collapsable A3 stock on it ... The others only get a stock when they have my registered sear in them ... The V-51 is no fun in full auto and it's pretty brutal in semi with an arm brace which is why it will get the benefit of the SBR, a club-foot stock and 2-stage buffer.

Just for grins, here's a crapy picture of my CA-89 in an arm brace

 

[ScottS]

OMG, that which has been seen can't be unseen...

Maybe it's less paperwork, but man, that's one ugly MP5.

 

[kimberkid]

OMG, that which has been seen can't be unseen...

Maybe it's less paperwork, but man, that's one ugly MP5.

I'm really not sure how to take that ...

​

I mean, yeah, she's really ugly in that, but do you really want to hurt Elfriede's (Elfi) feelings.

Well, do ya?

Maybe you just need to see her as she really is ... IRL she's an SBR!

 

[ScottS]

In real-life, she's [Borat]very nice![/Borat]

The MP5-platform is one of those rare examples where all the aesthetics come together perfectly. It's a thing of beauty.

NFA paperwork is a small price to pay to avoid that Sig brace.

Even though mine is just a lowly .22 variant, it's true to Tilo, Manfred, Georg, and Helmut.







And to stay on the general track of the thread, NFA paperwork is really such a non-event I can't see the attraction of the Sig brace, but that's me.

 

[kimberkid]

In real-life, she's [Borat]very nice![/Borat]

The MP5-platform is one of those rare examples where all the aesthetics come together perfectly. It's a thing of beauty.

NFA paperwork is a small price to pay to avoid that Sig brace.

I agree completely!
There are some firearms that the Arm Brace is less offensive. HOWEVER it really has no place on an HK, and the hinge makes it even more hideous.

On the other hand, the AR its not bad ... I submit a pistol build I've been working on for the last month or so:




Even the AK Pistol, without the folder doesn't look too bad:


Of course, this is my opinion ... YMMV

 

[Charger442]

im a big opponent of the sig brace, and have expressed it on other forums, though i wont expound here. The misinformation in this thread is kinds ridiculous.

My point was always that anyone could own an AR pistol, and you could even shoulder it. and it actually shot pretty well with just the buffer tube. now all you guys are throwing 130 bucks plus a KAK tube on and thinking youve just shirked the government? Meh, to each their own.

I was already in the NFA game prior to these tacticool arm brace faux stock things coming out, I wouldnt change a thing about how i did it.

My magpul STR is extremely nice to shoot on my 11.5" DD barreled upper with Griffin Armament suppressor.

 

[dogtown tom]

Charger442 im a big opponent of the sig brace, and have expressed it on other forums, though i wont expound here. The misinformation in this thread is kinds ridiculous.

I can't stand the Sig Arm Brace either, but please point out the "misinformation" in this thread.

 

[kimberkid]

im a big opponent of the sig brace, and have expressed it on other forums, though i wont expound here. The misinformation in this thread is kinds ridiculous.

My point was always that anyone could own an AR pistol, and you could even shoulder it. and it actually shot pretty well with just the buffer tube. now all you guys are throwing 130 bucks plus a KAK tube on and thinking youve just shirked the government? Meh, to each their own.

I was already in the NFA game prior to these tacticool arm brace faux stock things coming out, I wouldnt change a thing about how i did it.

My magpul STR is extremely nice to shoot on my 11.5" DD barreled upper with Griffin Armament suppressor.

I'm already in the NFA game as well, I have 7 SBR's.

I remember that I was stunned when I heard that you could shoot an AR pistol from the shoulder and thought the BATFE would reverse their position on that especially when I saw the foam covers and extended length pistol tubes. Personally I think the AR Pistol, with the tube only looks silly, but thats me. The Arm Brace makes it not only look better but balance better ... but thats not really the point, I get what you are saying pertaining to the AR.

The thing is that until the Arm Brace came along, there was no alternative for other firearms such as the AK, SiG and the HK to name just a few its been adapted to ... this gives people that live in states where SBR is not permitted an option.

The cost of an NFA stamp is only $200 but then you still have to add in the cost of the stock. On an AR its pretty cheap but on a SiG, thats another $165 and if you need an adaptor block another $100(so all of a sudden you are at $465 to SBR), on an HK a collapsable stock is another $200-$400 (so you are at $400-$600 to SBR) ... but to IMHO the biggest pain in the arse is tha wait time; its gotten redicilous and I don't know of a single class 3 dealer that will let his money be tied up for that long waiting on BTAFE approval. When I bought my M16 I had $12,000 tied up while it sat at my C3's for 5 months ...

Lastly, a point that many have made is that with the Arm Brace, you don't have to register with the BTAFE or ask permission the cross state lines as you do with any NFA item ... to some people that is a big deal in itself.

 

[dogtown tom]

kimberkid

The cost of an NFA stamp is only $200 but then you still have to add in the cost of the stock.....

Funny, but all rifles already come with a stock......and it's free BTW.

 

[kimberkid]

Funny, but all rifles already come with a stock......and it's free BTW.

Well, in the NFA game, and with the exception of the AR, which is what I thought we were talking about, the only three ways to do an SBR, buy it already made; start with a pistol, which does not come with a stock; or start with a rifle and have at least the barrel cut down ... either way you pay, unless your going to do a home hack job.

 

[RussellC]

I am interested in getting the Sig arm brace. Could someone school me here? What is the Proper "LOP" I keep seeing mentioned? Also, I see posts where "some of us find it hideous" really? Obviously your own self importance has blurred your thinking to the point you are confusing me with someone who gives a poop what you think of the appearance of my gun. Everyone's entitled, my AR rifles have M4 stocks on them, so I guess they are "hideous" as well! LOL

I assume the LOP is length of pull? I have seen a few you tubes where they use an A2 buffer tube, then tap the hole for a screw to hold in the spring and dentent that I guess is absent with the A2?

Thanks for any help on this "LOP" thing, Is it what allows the tube the brace goes on to be a little longer? Thanks again for any clarification!

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

I was on the fence until I got one, I am really liking the Sig Brace on my AR pistol. I took it out for the first time Wednesday and really enjoyed shooting the gun more than ever. I am now thinking of doing an AK pistol as well.

This is my AR pistol.

Related to my question above, how did you gain the extra pull length between brace and receiver? Thanks<

Russellc

 

[ny32182]

Especially as someone who already has SBRs, no plans to get a sig "arm brace". And even if I didn't, trusts are a one time thing, super cheap if you want them to be, and I'd rather pay $200 and then be able to have whatever stock I want, whatever barrel I want, and whatever foregrip I want.

Plus, mark my words, the ATF has reversed "opinions" in the past, and will do so again... the day is coming when this will be judged a stock. There will be a WHOLE lot of completely worthless "arm braces" out there overnight when that happens.

 

[Theohazard]

how did you gain the extra pull length between brace and receiver?

You slide it forward or backward on the buffer tube to get it where you want it. The SB15 brace just slips over the tube and it fits very tight on a normal pistol buffer tube, so you can move it where you want it and it probably won't move. Some people put paracord or something else to act as a spacer on the forward part of the buffer tube to keep it from sliding forward under pressure.

 

[dogtown tom]

kimberkid

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
Funny, but all rifles already come with a stock......and it's free BTW.

Well, in the NFA game, and with the exception of the AR, which is what I thought we were talking about, the only three ways to do an SBR, buy it already made; start with a pistol, which does not come with a stock; or start with a rifle and have at least the barrel cut down ... either way you pay, unless your going to do a home hack job.

You forgot another less expensive method....
Simply remove your rifle length barrel from your AR and install a short barrel. if you are worried about that expense......sell the rifle length barrel.

 

[RussellC]

Ah, thanks for that tidbit. I was just thinking it was as short as could be, thanks for that info. I am a lawyer and could set up my own trust, but for a myriad of reasons, I want this too! No such short cuts for silencers, trust will be needed eventually!

Thanks again!

Russellc

 

[Elkins45]

You forgot another less expensive method....
Simply remove your rifle length barrel from your AR and install a short barrel. if you are worried about that expense......sell the rifle length barrel.

Wouldn't this be making an illegal SBR? Or did I miss the part where you got the Form 1 stamp?

Once a rifle, always a rifle.

 

[dogtown tom]

Elkins45

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
You forgot another less expensive method....
Simply remove your rifle length barrel from your AR and install a short barrel. if you are worried about that expense......sell the rifle length barrel.

Wouldn't this be making an illegal SBR? Or did I miss the part where you got the Form 1 stamp?

If you'll read the post I quoted you'll note where kimberkid wrote: ..."Well, in the NFA game..." That pretty much means he's well aware of what is/is not required for SBR's.

 

[kimberkid]

Oops

 

[kimberkid]

What the heck is going on? I click the button to edit and I get a second post!

 

[kimberkid]

You forgot another less expensive method....
Simply remove your rifle length barrel from your AR and install a short barrel. if you are worried about that expense......sell the rifle length barrel.

First of all, I said:
"Well, in the NFA game, and with the exception of the AR", meaning I am talking about NFA and not talking about the AR.

 

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

Yeah it changed my mind. I am thankful that Sig made the brace. I think it is changing some minds on short barreled AR's, AK's, etc.

 

[Buzznrose]

Guess to me, the bottom one is that the NFA is an outdated and restrictive law. Maybe some good in portions, but as far as suppressor and barrel lengths go, it should definitely be repealed. Those issues, IMO, are as stupid as mag limits and pistol grip requirements imposed by our socialist states like MA.

Until the law is rescinded, if ever, I'll take the easy road where possible, and for me, that's a Sig Brace.

Still contemplating a suppressor...

YMMV

 

[wally]

Funny, but all rifles already come with a stock......and it's free BTW.

But then you have to add the cost of a short barrel or the gunsmithing to shorten it which can't be done until you get the stamp. Not to mention sawing off an AR barrel may leave you needing to open up the gas port or add an adjustable gas block.