Sight picture and eye focus

[seikdel]

Hello Folks. When I took my permit to carry class, we went over some basic pistol marksmanship. I was told to look with both eyes open and focus my dominant eye on the front sight. My problem is this: I have a mild astigmatism in my right eye, so when I do this, I can't focus on the front sight without closing my left eye. I'm not sure why, but if I do this with both eyes open, the front sight remains blurry and I can't focus closer than a few feet in front of me.

If I close my left eye and look only with my dominant defective right eye, I can focus properly. If I look down the sights with my non-dominant (e.g. left) eye, I can focus properly with both eyes open.

What is the proper solution here? Close non-dominant eye and lose left peripheral vision? Look down sights with non-dominant eye but have full peripheral vision? Use my dominant eye but have all the sights blurred out of focus?

And while I'm asking questions, what is the point in using your dominant eye as opposed to your non-dominant eye? Is it just faster acquisition?

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Learn what you "need" to see to place your shot. If the front sight is out of focus when both eyes are open then try to learn to shoot with an out of focus front sight. After awhile you'll probably adapt.

Within 15 yards I don't focus on my sights - I focus on the aimpoint where I want my bullet to land on the target. I still "see" my sights but I don't have a hard focus on the front sight. The fromt sight is blurry but I have no problem placing my bullets where I'm looking.

Beyond 15 yards I revert to a traditional hard front sight focus.

If you have to close you left eye for longer shots then do what you need to do. But you may surprise yourself if you learn to simply adapt to seeing a blurry front sight.

 

[56hawk]

I'm assuming from your question that you are also right handed. If possible you should use your right eye if you are right handed. From doing a lot of USPSA shooting I discovered that I could shoot just as accurately focusing on the target instead of the front sight. It's also a lot faster. Of course you still need to mentally focus on the sights, just not physically.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I voted for one eye because I only have one that works. I have not had vision in my left eye since I was 2 so targeting with my right eye comes very easily for me!!!

 

[Loosedhorse]

How about choice "D": get some glasses to correct your astigmatism! If you get them made out of polycarbonate, they will in effect act as shooting glasses, too. Win-win.

 

[SharkHat]

Practice practice practice...

If you practice enough, you'll learn what you need the sight picture to look like in order for your shooting to be effective.

Keeping both eyes open eliminates the eye and muscle strain associated with closing only one eye. For self defense and practical shooting, this is fine.

If you're interested in pattern or precision shooting, it's not uncommon for people to use translucent tape to occlude part of one lens of their shooting glasses. This lets them reap the benefits of having both eyes open and more clarity from their dominant eye.

 

[wally]

Focus on the front sight is a must, keeping both eyes open is a good idea, but its better to hit with one eye closed than to miss with both eyes open!

For defensive shooting any hit is a good hit, you can't miss fast enough to win, but its trivial to shoot slow enough to lose!

 

[Bobson]

Focus on the front sight is a must

Sigh.

Every time I see this, I just about lose my mind. The fact is, I've seen it explained that "this is why you need to focus on the front sight (rather than the target)," and it was phrased so well that I believed it, even though I've been focusing on the target all my life. Nobody taught me to do that, it just always seemed like the natural thing to do.

But I tried changing my focus to the front sight anyway. And Sweet Mother Mary, for the first time, I can firmly state that I have received unbelievably horrible advice on this forum. In a practical defensive situation, focusing on the front sight is just plain terrible advice. The distance between a front and rear sight on a handgun is not so great that one needs to focus on the sight to ensure they're lined up properly, unless you're the kind of person who can detect distances measured in micrometers with your naked eye at around three feet (roughly arms length).

Let me make it easy for you with this pro tip: You cannot detect that insignificant measure, so focusing on your sight is of absolutely zero benefit; and the obvious detriment (loss of focus on your target and what he/she is doing) far outweighs any potential gain even if you could.

I'm stuck on campus at an academy. Someone with a decent-quality camera grab it and a handgun, and take two pictures:

Picture number 1 is over the top of the gun with the lens focused on your front sight, while the gun is pointed at something around 7 yards away.
Picture number 2 should be the same, but with the lens focused on the target.

After seeing the pics, make up your own mind. If you continue to believe you need to stare at the weapon in your own hands during an exchange of gunfire, please never back me up. Send someone else.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Two separate observations.

1. seikdel - How do you know your right eye is your dominate eye?

If I look down the sights with my non-dominant (e.g. left) eye, I can focus properly with both eyes open.

From your description, it sounds like you are left eye dominate. If it were me, I'd use my left eye focused on the front sight

2. Bobson - Your experience is just that...yours'...and it flys counter to the knowledge base of just about every competent shooter I know; both from the world of action shooting and the world of shooting in defense of life.

Granted I'm from the old school that did not see accurate and fast shooting as exclusive abilities

The distance between a front and rear sight on a handgun is not so great that one needs to focus on the sight to ensure they're lined up properly, unless you're the kind of person who can detect distances measured in micrometers with your naked eye at around three feet (roughly arms length).

If you continue to believe you need to stare at the weapon in your own hands during an exchange of gunfire

I'm lead to believe that you either aren't familiar with or don't understand the difference between looking at your aligned sights and seeing your aligned sights. Granted, it is an advanced technique.

 

[stolivar]

repeat

Front sight Front sight Front sight Front sight Front sight Front sight Front sight


steve

 

[2zulu1]

Learn what you "need" to see to place your shot. If the front sight is out of focus when both eyes are open then try to learn to shoot with an out of focus front sight. After awhile you'll probably adapt.

Within 15 yards I don't focus on my sights - I focus on the aimpoint where I want my bullet to land on the target. I still "see" my sights but I don't have a hard focus on the front sight. The fromt sight is blurry but I have no problem placing my bullets where I'm looking.

Beyond 15 yards I revert to a traditional hard front sight focus.

If you have to close you left eye for longer shots then do what you need to do. But you may surprise yourself if you learn to simply adapt to seeing a blurry front sight.

+1

I wonder how many of the people who only focus on the front sight have been behind on the draw?

Let's make this very simple, try shooting the head off a slithering rattlesnake while focusing on the front sight as you are moving.

If you train to stand in the same spot as you shoot, figure on pain management if your involved in a lethal situation.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

It's as simple as pointing your finger at somebody. You don't focus on the tip of your finger - you focus on what you're pointing at and your finger naturally goes right there.

Same concept when you or your target is moving. You can fluidly "track" the target and keep your fingertip pointing at it.

I've found this technique allow me to place my shots accurately out to about 15 yards. Farther distance requires more precision. Distance buys me time to focus on my front sight and align the sights.

 

[kb58]

I guess I'm in the minority, so Bobson, you have company...

If I focus just on the front sight, the distant target is of course blurry. How can you be accurate when pointing at a blur in the distance? For me, I absolutely cannot be accurate unless I "rack my focus in and out", focusing on the target, the sights, the target, the sights, back and forth until all are aligned, then pulling the trigger. I accept that this is my problem only, that everyone else has it figured out, but until the light comes on, I just can't understand how pointing a pistol/rifle at a blur in the distance is going to be accurate. If I focus back and forth between the two, I'm just as accurate as the next guy, so there's nothing wrong with my technique as far as the end result goes - I just don't get how focusing on one and not the other can work.

Now, if the front sight is viewed through a very tiny hole (like a target sight) then both the front sight and the target can be in focus at the same time. I consider this a special case though because it requires a specific type of sight.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I think the "focus on the front sight" admonition was proffered because the rear sight is too close to the eye to be able to focus on it and the target whereas the front sight is more likely to be in focus with the target. The rear sight will not be in focus but whether it is an aperture or a notch but you will be able to align it properly in correlation with the front sight and the target with practice.

 

[BCRider]

Seikdel, I'm in exactly the same boat as you. My right eye has a slight astigmatism and aiming with it results in pretty poor accuracy. With just a bit of practice at the range I learned to turn my head just a little and alter my arms a little so my left eye is the one I used for aiming while I hold the gun right handed. THis works well enough that I got the best ever score on the "Dot Torture" drill last week during one of our weekly IDPA fun/practice nights. I also trounced all the other guys ! !

Somone mentioned getting glasses. In my case my prescription results in my near vision being very blurry. And sadly the front sight is then very much in my "near vision" and is extremely blurry. So no help there if the OP has the same issue with his glasses.

So yes, you certainly can shoot well holding the gun in your right hand and aiming with your left eye. But it means you need to get out often enough to make it work automatically. That means more range time and more ammo. Hard to take, eh?

Bobson, I'm not sure why all the vitriole. No one said to pay attention to the front sight. Only that you want to focus your vision on it. The target is still more than sharp enough to see what they are doing. And by focsuing on the sight but paying attention to the target you stand a far better chance of aligning the gun with the vital areas you're hoping to hit. And if you can hit those vitals sooner it'll nullify the threat before he can do something worth paying attention about.

On the other hand if you've been at this long enough that you can focus on the target and raise and rapid fire your gun and get all the shots within a 5 to 6 inch circle at 5 to 7 yards then just carry on since it's obviously working for you.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I'm with 9mmepiphany here, it seems like your left eye is actually your dominant eye. Learn to shoot with it while keeping your right eye open for peripherals. I have astigmatism in my dominant eye as well, but it doesn't keep me from being able to focus on the front sight.

I'm lead to believe that you either aren't familiar with or don't understand the difference between looking at your aligned sights and seeing your aligned sights. Granted, it is an advanced technique.

This as well, but there are many more people that it applies to than people who understand (and apply) it.

 

[guyfromohio]

Shawn Dodson.... that was great advice. I've been shooting for a couple of decades and never really caught on to the both eyes open thing. Was trying to aim with precision with both open. At the range today, after reading your post, I simply pointed at the target like I would my finger. 9-10 ring all shots at 10 yards. That was huge for me. Slow, aimed, fire is certainly more accurate, but point and shoot is far more real-world applicable.

 

[LightningMan]

I do what works for me, I'm right handed, but left eye dominant,so I generally close my left eye. I have no problems shooting this way, as I have tried shooting with both eyes open, but it's like my eyes fight each other for my sights, which causes me to see double. LM

 

[Bobson]

Bobson - I'm lead to believe that you either aren't familiar with or don't understand the difference between looking at your aligned sights and seeing your aligned sights.

Is that a joke or an insult?

Unless my elementary school teachers failed miserably, I would say that looking at your aligned sight is just that - looking AT your aligned sight; which seems to be the popular recommendation. OTOH, seeing your aligned sights would be focusing on the target, while still SEEING that your sights are aligned properly. I would think anyone who's mastered the ability to see well enough to function in day-to-day life would be able to see an aligned set of sights while not focusing directly on either of them (front or rear).

Is that not the case? This is similar to the old, "I hear you but I'm not listening" gag. I see them but I'm not looking at them. Mostly because I would gain nothing by doing so, unless you hand me a set of calipers and two extra, bionic arms.

Maybe I've just trained my peripheral vision to a state of acute superiority through years of supposedly improper (though incredibly effective) technique. Where's Pat McManus when you need him?

 

[9mmepiphany]

Is that a joke or an insult?

Unless my elementary school teachers failed miserably, I would say that looking at your aligned sight is just that - looking AT your aligned sight; which seems to be the popular recommendation. OTOH, seeing your aligned sights would be focusing on the target, while still SEEING that your sights are aligned properly. I would think anyone who's mastered the ability to see well enough to function in day-to-day life would be able to see an aligned set of sights while not focusing directly on either of them (front or rear).

Is that not the case? This is similar to the old, "I hear you but I'm not listening" gag. I see them but I'm not looking at them. Mostly because I would gain nothing by doing so, unless you hand me a set of calipers and two extra, bionic arms.

Maybe I've just trained my peripheral vision to a state of acute superiority through years of supposedly improper (though incredibly effective) technique. Where's Pat McManus when you need him?

We're almost on the same page. Maybe we are just perceiving the sights differently.

Just because you aren't focused on the aligned sights doesn't mean that you are focusing on the target. It is a version of the martial arts practice of "soft eyes" seeing everything without looking at anything. Enos writes about it in Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals and a well known example are NFL QB's ability to see the whole field when dropping back for a pass. It is the opposite of tunnel vision.

What you do is let your subconscious see the aligned sights appearing on the target cue your trigger press, while your conscious mind drives the sights to that target. So I'm seeing the target, but not looking at it, as my focus is on putting the sights onto it. One learns this, somewhat advanced skill, by first learning to focus on seeing the sights on the target where you want to place your shots.

I do understand how you describe shooting. I can do it too. It is a by-product of the muscle memory developed by practicing sighted shooting.

Note: before anyone jumps up and says "That's Point Shooting"...it isn't. I can Point Shoot and this is different