Aging Eyes, Open Sights and Target shooting with a pistol..

[Mike OTDP]

First, Charley C is right on the money. See a good eye doctor regularly. I actually use two...a local guy works my ocular hypertension (I'll be on eye drops the rest of my life, which beats losing my eyesight), and I've got a second who works the refractive. If you're anywhere in the Virginia area, I highly recommend Dr. Alan Toler of Richmond. He'll get you set up with a proper shooting prescription.

Most of the Olympic rifle and pistol shooters are using dedicated shooting glasses. I do myself, and the only regret is that I didn't start a decade earlier.

 

[jlr1962]

I just went through getting my first glasses. I read about many a shooter's experience. I got "progressive" type bifocal transitions lenses. They took some time to get used to. Night driving was really bad at first. I don't know that they helped my shooting. I can see my sights much better. I can see targets at distance much better. I don't have to run my target holder back to see my groups when shooting indoors. I think the glasses helped to decrease the ringing in my ears.

Buying the glasses was a fiasco. Buy the glasses from a store that includes all fees in their refund policy. Read the refund policy. Sometimes people lie about these things. The first place I went to was screwed up.

 

[TimSr]

Anybody else experience shooting with glasses through a scope changing point of impact frm when shootin the same scope without glasses?

 

[mikemyers]

Charlie C is absolutely right, and an "optometrist" is not the same as an "ophthalmologist". One is a technician, who can provide eyeglasses. The other is an eye doctor, who can do far more.

I do volunteer work at an eye hospital in India when I'm not in the USA, and they treat a huge number of patients daily - many of them for free. There are many things that can be going on inside your eye, and most of them can be helped with the right medications. Cataracts can be replaced with a new lens. As Charlie C pointed out though, in many cases you can NOT get back your old vision unless the disease is found early enough to allow treatment. Then, medications can control it.

(This discussion is part of the reason why I'm trying to find new shooting glasses. You only get one set of eyes. Take care of them.)

 

[doubleh]

I switched to progressive bifocals years ago and found I could shoot iron sighted handguns again. Not so for rifles because of the longer focal length and also the narrow correction window of early progressives. A few years down the road I had to have a stronger glasses of course and although the width of magnification had improved in the glasses they no longer worked with handguns but rifles became possible again.

Now I should have my brand new progressives any day and they are supposed to have correction all across the lens. It will be interesting to see what is going to be possible with iron sights. Also found I have cataracts which I expected. I have a different type in each eye but they are small and of a slow growing type so no problem with them for some time.

The thing about glasses is that what works for you now isn't going to continue to work. Age takes care of that. It can be corrected but it's not cheap and has to be done over. Nothing you can do matches those young eyes though.

I installed a red dot sight on one of my handguns years ago. It has worked great with all my different glasses and I can even use plain safety glasses. Nothing beats one focal plain.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I just wanted to add that I have progressive lenses and have to hold my head at an odd angle to get my sights in focus but I can do that and it cures the issues for me when punching paper. If target shooting is your passion with handguns a correctly set up pair of progressive bi/tri focals might be the perfect solution...even a specific pair set up specifically for shooting.

Jus be careful if you train this way and carry for self defense. You might have a problem acquiring the sight picture you want/need in an SD situation is you train a lot at target shooting with specific shooting glasses but wear contacts daily when you might need SD shooting skills.

This happened to me and it's one of the reasons why I only train SD shooting with normal eye wear and have set target shooting aside...I don't want defending my life to depend on specific skills that depend on specialty glasses.

VooDoo

 

[mikemyers]

.......The thing about glasses is that what works for you now isn't going to continue to work. Age takes care of that. It can be corrected but it's not cheap and has to be done over......

I don't understand. Most people should go in for periodic eye examination (by a doctor, not an optometrist) so if anything bad is happening, it can be caught early. I'm not sure how expensive that is - my insurance covers it.

Most things that need to be corrected don't need to be done over again. If you have glaucoma, you start on the appropriate medications. If you have cataracts, they are removed and replaced with a "plastic" lens. If you mean the cost of buying new glasses every time your prescription changes, you need to find someone who can do that, who isn't owned by the "eyeglass mafia" in Italy. (I get my own glasses from an eye hospital in India, for a very reasonable cost, and they seem to work well for two or three years.)



Personal opinion - if you want your glasses to work with front sights, YOU need to measure the distance, and when you go to your eye doctor or optometrist, bring a tape measure and insist that you need to see well at THAT distance. Better yet, get a pair of glasses made specifically for ONLY that distance. When your prescription changes, you keep the frames, and just get new lenses.

 

[Chunkychuck]

I just wanted to add that I have progressive lenses and have to hold my head at an odd angle to get my sights in focus but I can do that and it cures the issues for me when punching paper. If target shooting is your passion with handguns a correctly set up pair of progressive bi/tri focals might be the perfect solution...even a specific pair set up specifically for shooting.

Jus be careful if you train this way and carry for self defense. You might have a problem acquiring the sight picture you want/need in an SD situation is you train a lot at target shooting with specific shooting glasses but wear contacts daily when you might need SD shooting skills.

This happened to me and it's one of the reasons why I only train SD shooting with normal eye wear and have set target shooting aside...I don't want defending my life to depend on specific skills that depend on specialty glasses.

VooDoo

This is where I am. My pistol shooting is for SD. I am looking at training without my glasses so I can simulate the worst case scenario. Any suggestions where no focus is available on either target or front sight.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I always train by focusing on the threat/target and have pretty much given up using sights preferring "point shooting" for SD style shooting.

My glasses allow me to see a target at 30' clearly and even without them I can see a target at that distance or closer even without glasses. If I couldn't see close or far?

I dunno. Hopefully my eyes will not get *that* bad.

VooDoo

 

[doubleh]

Mike, of course everyone should have periodic eye exams just like you should have a periodic physical exam. I am aware of what can be done for glaucoma and cataracts and, yes, insurance will pay a part of it. What I was trying to point out is that the glasses you get today to correct your vision will only last for a period of time and then it has to be done again because your eyes continue to change as you age.

 

[mikemyers]

'doubleh', when you get new glasses, do you get a new frame and lenses, or just the lenses? The last time I checked, thanks to the rip-off idea from the Italian company that bought just about ALL the places that sell frames, what used to cost $30 now costs $150 and up, way up.

I agree with you that your eyesight continues to change (for better or worse) as you age, and your prescription therefore changes, but how much is a new pair of lenses only nowadays?

Give me a minute - let me look up the place that Mr. Borland recommended yesterday. I haven't checked with them yet - maybe later today.....

If you already have the prescription and don't mind the Harry Potter look, check out Bob Jones glasses:

http://www.bjonessights.com/


And while not as inexpensive as the Jones glasses, look into Decot glasses. Top drawer shooting glasses.

http://www.sportglasses.com/

 

[Hangingrock]

Personally I have corrected vision. I shoot with the standard eyewear that is used day to day and also shoot with out the eyewear. The sight picture is what it is but I'm only interested in self-defense application as opposed to Bullseye and etcetera.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Red dot sights are a lifesaver for that issue. There's a reason my home defense gun has a Docter sight.

 

[doubleh]

Mike, when I get new glasses I get new frames. Why? Because I can't find anyone that will make lens that will fit my old frames. I am typing this wearing my old glasses that have titanium frames that are as good as the day I bought them but they will be retired because of that.

Wife says I should save my old glasses to wear when I'm working in my shop. Duh. I got new glasses because I can't see that great with the old ones. Lens have some scratches and the distance focus is getting a little fuzzy. If I could see good why would I want to spend all that money on new ones? Besides part of the cost of the new ones was a two year warranty. If I break 'em or scratch 'em I'll just get them replaced. I normally manage four years with a prescription and get new lens at two years courtesy of the warranty. Eye doctor doesn't like it but it's my money that I'm keeping from becoming his when I can still see fine.

Eye glass place called earlier this afternoon and said my new glasses are here. I'll drive down and get them tomorrow and see how iron sights work on what---or not.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

My shooting buddy is near 80. He wears progressives. He out shoots guys half his age.

 

[mikemyers]

Mike, when I get new glasses I get new frames. Why? Because I can't find anyone that will make lens that will fit my old frames........

Oops, I guess they don't make glasses like they used to. I get my glasses in India, and they custom grind the lens to fit whatever frame it's being used in. I have wonderful frames I bought years ago, and they're still in use, with new lenses installed.

Because of the "Eyeglass Frame Mafia" (that's what I call it), there is no more competition in eyeglass frames, as they all come from the same source, and they do NOT want people using their old frames.

Here's a list of places that will do what you want:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS597US597&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=new%20lenses%20for%20old%20eyeglass%20frames

 

[mikemyers]

My shooting buddy is near 80. He wears progressives. He out shoots guys half his age.

Just a thought. It takes a couple of weeks to get used to progressive lenses, but once you do, the ONLY thing you need to do to see something clearly at a given distance, is to rotate your head up or down until you're looking through the right part of the glasses for that distance. Whether you're 40 or 80, it's all the same - once you get used to progressive lenses. On the other hand, the reason I got regular shooting glasses, was so that no matter what I did with my head, the only thing in front of me that would be in focus was the front sight!


(When you first put progressive glasses on, it's almost like getting seasick, because the world twists and turns anytime you move your head. My first impression was YIKES, NO WAY!!!, but the advice given to me was to just keep using them until I got used to them. That took me about two weeks, but maybe I'm slow.)

 

[MurrayNevada]

I gave up on the eyeglass route and just installed XS Big Dots on all my carry handguns.

 

[jlr1962]

I hear ya mikemyers. My shooting gets better after being at the range for at least 30 or 45 minutes. The drive to the range makes me nauseous. One the pukey feeling goes away, I can focus on the task at hand. It has been a few weeks now, I hope I get used to these glasses soon.

 

[mikemyers]

jlr1962 - when I first put my progressive lenses on, I started to feel "seasick", and had trouble with stairs. Turning my head one way or the other made the whole world swish around as if I was in some kind of video game. The advice I remember being given was to wear them as much as I could. Eventually, they felt perfectly normal.

Do you still have your old glasses? If so, I'd suggest you use them for driving, until you get more comfortable with the progressive lenses. Here's a video with some advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOpKKWEKQSY​

By the way, I've found that they are perfectly suited for red-dot sights. I just use the top of the lens, as I would were I just looking at the target normally. For use with iron sights, I've never tried it, as I like looking straight ahead when shooting, and with progressive lenses I'd need to use the lower part of the lens. I don't see why they wouldn't work. Maybe next time I'm at the range, I'll try it.

 

[jlr1962]

mikemyers, these are my first prescription glasses of any kind. I have worked my way up to 325 readers over the years. I waited until I had a test at the DMV coming up for my driver's license. I don't know what they do if you fail a vision test, and I didn't want to find out.

Glasses do help on the red dot sight as well. I have an astigmatism. Most red dots were not very good for me before. I had to have a single dot sight. I have not shot my red dot at more than 25 yards yet. I hope to be able to actually see the 100 yard target better. My last scope purchase was influenced by my ability to see the hash marks on the reticle. I wound up with a 16 power to be able to see the mill reticle clear enough for ranging. At 10 power, the mill reticle was too small for me to see.

 

[mikemyers]

jlr1962, I've learned a lot over the years of volunteering at the eye hospital, and I've been reading everything I can about red dot sights.

The red dot sights I've read about have no magnification - what you see is "life size". The red dot is designed to be seen as "sharp" when your eyes are focused at a distance. I've read that it isn't "infinity", but for all practical purposes, it might as well be.

If you got your eyeglasses from a full eye exam with an ophthalmologist, they should correct anything that is correctable in your vision (which excludes permanent damage from Glaucoma, Diabetes, or Macular Degeration). When you look ONLY at some distant object, it should appear sharp, and not distorted. Ditto for the red dot.

If these are your first prescription glasses, and they are also progressive lenses, it's probably going to take you longer than usual for your brain to adapt to the "strange" things it will think it is seeing - just move your head left and right, and the world will start to look like you're on drugs or something. Over time, the brain knows what to do, and regardless of whether you're wearing the glasses or not, the world will look normal.

I don't think the red dot will appear any sharper at 15, 25, 50, or 100 yards. Yesterday I tried looking specifically at the red dot, and not paying much attention to the target. Results were the same. The only thing that makes my red dot look "blurry" is turning up the brightness, but this is indoors, it's what I would expect.

I am completely lost by your comments about variable power scopes. I know nothing about those, or how they would work with a red dot sight. Maybe you can explain a bit more here, or in a new thread? I'm also curious why, if you have, say, the 16 power scope, and you can see the reticle clearly, why would you also want a red dot?

 

[ugaarguy]

My last scope purchase was influenced by my ability to see the hash marks on the reticle. I wound up with a 16 power to be able to see the mill reticle clear enough for ranging. At 10 power, the mill reticle was too small for me to see.

You were using the scope magnification to make up for the Rx lenses you needed. It's a fascinating topic, but this aspect (highly magnified rifle scopes) probably deserves it's own thread in the long gun sights and accessories forum here.

I am completely lost by your comments about variable power scopes. I know nothing about those, or how they would work with a red dot sight. Maybe you can explain a bit more here, or in a new thread? I'm also curious why, if you have, say, the 16 power scope, and you can see the reticle clearly, why would you also want a red dot?

He was addressing two separate issues. Magnified red dots (the Trijicon ACOG is probably the best known) are used for faster target acquisition at intermediate ranges (75 - 300 yards typically). Again, that's something that someone could start a thread on in long gun sights & accessories if further discussion is desired.

 

[doubleh]

Son of a gun, hot dog, hurray! Got the new specs today and I think the high price rascal were worth it. I can see to shoot iron sighted handguns again. They also work with one carbine length rife with iron sights.

Thanks for the link mikemyers, now that I've got these high priced cheaters. I'm going to save it for the next session with new glasses.

I had started wearing lined trifocals and they were the most annoying thing I had ever used. I've used more annoying things now but that was then. I felt like a chicken picking grain using them Up, up, up,down, up, down trying to keep things in focus. Then I got progressives. I was like night and day. I never had a minutes time getting used to them JUst put them on and, WOW, this id great.

Sad part is nothing and I mean nothing works like young eyes.

 

[jlr1962]

You were using the scope magnification to make up for the Rx lenses you needed. It's a fascinating topic, but this aspect (highly magnified rifle scopes) probably deserves it's own thread in the long gun sights and accessories forum here.


He was addressing two separate issues. Magnified red dots (the Trijicon ACOG is probably the best known) are used for faster target acquisition at intermediate ranges (75 - 300 yards typically). Again, that's something that someone could start a thread on in long gun sights & accessories if further discussion is desired.

Thanks for translating that for me. I don't write as well as I should.