Aging Eyes, Open Sights and Target shooting with a pistol..

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nerfsrule2

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:what:
I have problems seeing close up..My eyes are equally bad. So the Doctor recommended that I wear one contact for reading in either eye..
Over the last several weeks at the indoor pistol range my groups have gone from one inch at 50'. to needing the entire 10x14 paper to empty a magazine.

I used to wear the corrective lens in my left non dominant eye..and use my fuzzy right eye to do all of the sighting with..Again the target would be clear but the front sight fuzzy..My groups expanded all of a sudden.
So last night I put the contact into my dominant right eye and gave it a try..The sights were clear but the target at 50'l ooked like a Ghost..

I even tried shooting with both eyes open and still got the Ghost effect..

How can I get back to my old form?? Glasses?? I do not want to give up open sights shooting or put my Model 41 away..
Thanks,...
 
You could try using distance correction in both eyes and then get a weak pair of reading glasses at Wal-Mart for $5. Experiment with different strengths in the store to find out where the right balance is between distance and close vision. I'd start with +1.00 glasses and go from there. Or if you like having different focus in different eyes (I don't, but some do), get a "range contact" for your sighting eye that is only a diopter or so closer-focused than your distance eye, so the target isn't so far out of focus.
 
Glasses.
Specifically, seamless bifocals probably.

There is a sweet spot in there somewhere where you can clearly focus on the front sight.

Doesn't matter if the target & rear sight are slightly out of focus.

I have also known some older shooters that swear by these.
http://www.meritcorporation.com/

rc
 
Plain old bifocals. Good ones. Your eye will figure out how to line up the sights with practice.

I for some reason can't handle the no-line seamless bifocals RC mentions. But some guys I know use them for shooting and swear by them.
 
Thanks..My current eye doctor figured out a contact that would make the sharpness at the distance of the front sight with my arms extended..and the front sight is crystal clear when the contact is worn in my dominant eye..But sadly the target (At 50 feet) is way to blurry or Ghosty to get a reference on the bullseye... I was also shooting my ar 15 over the last weekend and the center circle on the EO Tec looked like the dots were dripping down the glass...and this was with both eyes open...
 
I use two different lenses.
Left one for target and right (dominant) one for sights.
And keep both open.
 
Have gone through the same thing. Get the optometrist to give you a corrective prescription for reading at 28" to 30" while wearing your contacts that will work for operating your PC and shooting. You probably already have one for reading glasses with the long distance correction on your contacts. The target may be a bit fuzzy but that's how its supposed to be. I just got an inexpensive frame and lenses from Costco and it worked great. You could invest in prescription tinted shooting glasses.
 
I have the no-line progressive glasses and line cut trifocals. Hand gun sights look pretty good if I crane my head up to one of the close view lenses. However, it's a major PITA.

I finally installed a red dot on a revolver of mine back in the spring. Red dots are my future for more precise target shooting with handguns.
 
A buddy of mine needs 2.0x readers to read properly. But obviously when he does that he can't see the target worth diddly. He went with 1.25x readers and now he can see the front blade quite clearly and the distant target isn't overly fuzzy. It must be working for him as he manages to hit smaller steel bonus targets pretty consistently at our cowboy events. He's not really a bullseye shooter but the times he's let fly with his M&P at a regular target he does OK for a guy that visibly shakes the gun while firing.

He started off trying the progressive glasses and found that the sweet spot was too narrow. So he gave up on that and just went with the mid power readers. He wears them for the whole day of shooting as shooting glasses.

So that would be one option.

If you shoot in low light levels like in an indoor range (why do most of them have to be so darn DIM inside?) then you might try the mid power readers in conjunction with a trick I presented some time back. Click on the link below. For dimmer conditions a 3/32 hole gives some improvement while not making things too much dimmer.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=712731&highlight=glasses+peep

I use one of these patches whenever I shoot at my club's indoor range for the bullseye sessions. It does help with making the depth of field larger to my eyes. So both the rear sight and the target sharpen up a little when the front sight is the focal point.
 
Don't feel bad, I deal with the same circumstances. What I do is wear a weak pair of reading glasses, it gives me a pretty clear view of the target and the sights. Still isn't great, but it at least I can get them grouping decently at 50'.

GS
 
Have gone through the same thing. Get the optometrist to give you a corrective prescription for reading at 28" to 30" while wearing your contacts that will work for operating your PC and shooting. You probably already have one for reading glasses with the long distance correction on your contacts. The target may be a bit fuzzy but that's how its supposed to be. I just got an inexpensive frame and lenses from Costco and it worked great. You could invest in prescription tinted shooting glasses.
I think my Dr already has my contact at a corrective distance at corrective prescription for reading at 28" to 30"..(That is why the front of the pistol sight is crystal clear..(I will double check)..But for me the target is to Fuzzy or ghosty with the current setup..
 
A buddy of mine needs 2.0x readers to read properly. But obviously when he does that he can't see the target worth diddly. He went with 1.25x readers and now he can see the front blade quite clearly and the distant target isn't overly fuzzy. It must be working for him as he manages to hit smaller steel bonus targets pretty consistently at our cowboy events. He's not really a bullseye shooter but the times he's let fly with his M&P at a regular target he does OK for a guy that visibly shakes the gun while firing.

He started off trying the progressive glasses and found that the sweet spot was too narrow. So he gave up on that and just went with the mid power readers. He wears them for the whole day of shooting as shooting glasses.

So that would be one option.

If you shoot in low light levels like in an indoor range (why do most of them have to be so darn DIM inside?) then you might try the mid power readers in conjunction with a trick I presented some time back. Click on the link below. For dimmer conditions a 3/32 hole gives some improvement while not making things too much dimmer.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=712731&highlight=glasses+peep

I use one of these patches whenever I shoot at my club's indoor range for the bullseye sessions. It does help with making the depth of field larger to my eyes. So both the rear sight and the target sharpen up a little when the front sight is the focal point.
I will try this...(Going to Costco to pick up several pair of readers)..I think I already have one pair that is plus 1.5
 
The target doesn't mean anything. Only the front sight counts. If your vision has been corrected so that the front sight is perfectly clear you are just where you need to be. I've shot leg matches on days without wind when in rapid fire, after the first round the target is gone. Too much smoke. You are shooting from muscle memory as to where the target is and your concentration is the front sight and the trigger pull. You can shoot some amazing scores not seeing the target. Most of our poor shots comes FROM seeing the target clearly as then we are not seeing the front sight clearly.
Stu
55 years of battling that front sight.
 
Click on the link below. For dimmer conditions a 3/32 hole gives some improvement while not making things too much dimmer.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=712731&highlight=glasses+peep

I use one of these patches whenever I shoot at my club's indoor range for the bullseye sessions. It does help with making the depth of field larger to my eyes. So both the rear sight and the target sharpen up a little when the front sight is the focal point.

I tried a version of your DIY version and found decreasing the hole to 1.5mm (~1/16") worked great for me on the indoor range with my contacts (optimized for distance for fishing and hunting).

To the OP, I'd try a version of the stick on aperture - either commercial or homemade.
 
I tried a version of your DIY version and found decreasing the hole to 1.5mm (~1/16") worked great for me on the indoor range with my contacts (optimized for distance for fishing and hunting).

Thanks for confirming that at least ONE person out there tried my trick... :D The original thread got precious little feedback of that sort.

And yeah, if the target area your range is lit up well then going smaller works LOTS better. But once the image through the aperture becomes noticeably dim we quickly see a case of diminishing returns. For my club's range I found that the next bigger 3/32 size worked best. When I've used this trick for outdoor bullseye shooting the 1/16 worked best thanks to the brighter conditions.

The target doesn't mean anything. Only the front sight counts. If your vision has been corrected so that the front sight is perfectly clear you are just where you need to be.

Stu, I fully agree up to a point. And thankfully my own eyes aren't that far gone.... YET! And neither are yours. Be thankful for that.

But for those that need the more serious close in power glasses to see that front sight clearly the downside is that the target REALLY goes to hell as the power goes up.

Those that enjoy serious photography understand about depth of field and an acceptable degree of sharpness. And yes, we aren't doing wall portraits when we shoot. But to hit the target we still need to see it sharply ENOUGH that it actually resembles a target. As in we're talking that the shooter can't even make out the black center of a target. Instead the black center and buff outer just wash out to a light grey blur that mixes into the backstop. For folks like my buddy mentioned above and likely for nerfsrule this is likely the case if they use readers that allow for a sharp and distinct front blade.

In photography parlance their depth of field is greatly reduced by using the reading glasses to see the front blade with crystal clarity. So some degree of compromise is needed to where the front blade is still sharp enough and the target isn't washed out too badly. In photographic terms this means adjusting the focus so the focus point at some point in front of or behind the primary subject so that the near or far details could be sharpened up or sent more out of focus to blur them out and avoid taking the eye away from the main subject. For us shooters that is what selecting a mid power set of reading lenses does. It sets the focal point of our eyes a little in front of the front sight so that the target will still be a target, although fuzzy, and the rear blade will be sharp enough with just slightly soft edges to use clearly. It's a compromise. But it's a useable compromise that can be used well enough to avoid having to go with a scope or red dot for some time until the vision sinks further.

Nerfsrule, does that more or less describe what you have experienced? It's how my buddy described his view when we were working on finding the right power glasses for him.

Take heart though. Once you get to where you give up on trying to make plain irons work there's always red dots waiting. The nature of the red dot is that the dot is virtually viewed at infinity. So you can use glasses that make the target sharp and the dot will also be crystal clear.

Like you I cringe at having to resort to a red dot. But if it's that or give up shooting due to not being able to use the sights I know which way I'll swing. Good luck with your search for your own answer. I hope what I learned from working on my buddy's problem helped out.


Now for my own story. I have some astigmatism in both eyes. More in my right than my left. So I use glasses for distance for driving at night and for flying my model airplanes. But the glasses also ruin my near vision really badly. So I can't use them for shooting. The last time around I worked with my glasses guy to try to come up with a near to far solution. Bifocals don't work since they can't see the front sight and distant target together. At least not unless I were to put the dividing line right at the middle of the target so the sights are just up barely to the line and the upper is the view of the target. Which sounds pretty hard to do cleanly. Anyway.... we worked on trying that "monovision" thing but in glasses. We set up the right eye with plus values so I had a nice clear and sharp front view of a nail on a stick that simulated the front sight on a handgun. The left eye was left set for the target. I went out to the range and had a WONDERFUL view of both. And I eagerly shot one of the tightest ever groups I've shot.... 3 1/2 inches to the left of center Doing it again was a repeat. And yet again... but this time my group was even tighter which made the offset that much more obvious. Why the 3 1/2 inches? that's my ocular spacing measurement. Apparently I don't have a noticeably dominant eye so I was aiming with one eye and seeing the target with the other.

So much for THAT wonderful idea.....
 
This is probably the only subject that I have heard discussed on this forum that I may have more experience with than anyone whose answers I've read.

Like most "old men", until about 8 or 9 years ago, my vision was pretty fair, but I still had to get a new prescription for my trifocals every 2 or 3 years: I had been getting my glasses at WalMart for maybe 10 years or so; then, after I had moved to Indiana for about a year, I thought I need new glasses again, went back to WalMart, and fortunately for me, the guy who gave me my eye exam was also the owner of the eyeware franchise; after the eye exam, he told me.....you need to go see an ophthalmologist ASAP because you have a cataract, and no eye glasses are going to improve your vision until you have it fixed.

A week or so later when I saw Dr. Pickerel, he confirmed the cataract, and also found that I had glaucoma. A short time later Dr. Pickerel performed cataract surgery on my right eye, and I was back to almost normal vision with the new artificial lens. But the glaucoma is a whole different story; the inside of a normal healthy eyeball is filled with a fluid; this fluid is under a certain amount of pressure; glaucoma is a "condition" which causes this pressure to increase, and this increase in inter-ocular pressure causes the thousands of tiny "light receptors" (which needless to say have a technical name that I don't recall just now ) to start dying; once they die, they're gone for good! when they all die, you're blind for good; glaucoma cannot be "cured".......it can however be "arrested"; simply by applying one drop of latanaprost to each eye every night, it reduces the inter-ocular pressure and the glaucoma is held "in check"; I haven't seen Dr. Pickerel now for about 3 years, and just in the last 3 or 4 months, the cataract that he had already told me was growing in my left eye has started progressing much faster, and I'm pretty sure I'll be needing my left eye "fixed" the same as my right one was.

To the OP; this forum is a great place to get gun information and advice, but it's definitely NOT the place to get medical advice about one's eyes. My very best advice to you is......go see an ophthalmologist immediately, the sooner the better. If you find that you have a cataract, that can be fixed; If it should turn out that you have glaucoma, every month that it goes untreated leads you that much closer to blindness. If you have glaucoma and you allow it to remain untreated very long, you won't be needing any guns, you'll end up needing a seeing-eye dog.
 
You need one eye sharp at front sight distance and one at distance. Or learn to shoot the front sight as sharp and blur the target. I had the same problem. Mounted an Ultradot on my 41, which is easy due to design of weapon, and don't have to worry any more. Target and dot are in same plane. Good shooting.
 
I can't speak for off the rack readers, but my prescription glasses have polycarbonate lenses which are highly impact resistant. They aren't safety glasses though since the way the lenses are secured probably don't meet safety specs. So, a lens could theoretically be knocked backwards from the frame, but the lens itself isn't likely to shatter.

It is rare, but some ranges I've been to do require safety glasses over prescription glasses.
 
Can't help but wonder - are the reading glasses and bi-focals referenced above SAFETY glasses?

The Costco glasses are generally reasonably impact resistant but as mentioned the frames certainly aren't up to safety glasses specs. However the better industrial suppliers will have certified safety glasses that are either full on readers or bifocals.
 
Back to the OP...

First, definitely get regular eye exams. Glaucoma is no joke, but can be stopped cold with modern meds. And you get a correct prescription.

Second, remember that you must see the sights clearly. Seeing the target clearly....not that important.

Third, get a proper pair of shooting glasses. Knobloch or Champion. Go to www.customsightpicture.com, get Dr. Toler's kit. This will let you fine-tune your shooting prescription and tint. The only regret you'll have is not doing it 5 years ago.

Fourth, open up the rear sight notch. Most American pistols have rear sight notch widths that show a thin strip of light on each side of the front sight. No good. The Olympic pistol shooters have guns with adjustable rear sight width...and find a ratio of light-front sight-light of 1-2-1 is a very good place to start.
 
It ain't complicated. Forget contacts if you are a shooter who wants to use open sights. Get glasses. Get progressive lenses, whereby the bottom portion is for close up and the upper part for long distance. They don't have a line dividing two "power" sections. They are progressive. Prescription progressive lenses lets you see sharply at any distance. For shooting, tilt your head until the sights and target are in "balance." You still won't see front sight, rear sight, and target in distinct relief, but you definitely can find that place where your groups on paper will be as tight as they were many years ago. I'm 67. On the range or in the woods, I'm good to go with open sights or peep sights.

I don't mean this sarcastically and I don't say it with hostility. No offense intended. Contact lenses are for the vane, where looks are more important than function. There is no happy medium with contacts. You can't have tight groups and good looks at the same time if your eyes are in need of correction. I'm as vain as the next person. My glasses are rimless so that they seem invisible, but still I can shoot effectively. Rimless glasses are definitely more fragile; the trick is to wear them all the time, except when sleeping. Constantly taking them on and off will wear the frames quickly.
Good luck.
 
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