Sighting in Handguns?

[luzyfuerza]

When comparing POA vs POI with non-dominant hand only, I've found that trying to grip too hard results in more difference than using a more relaxed grip.

This isn't intuitive, but for me, POA matches POI better if I don't use a death grip when shooting weak hand only.

As always, YMMV.

 

[Zerodefect]

I use a Site Lite bore laser. Should be an inch or two high at the length of my hallway to get me shooting well at speed. I guess I break my wrist too much, or my eyes are fooled into keeping the front sight down too much.

I also use it to check whether I'm hitting left due to me or the sights. It's strangely repeatable and accurate with pistols, and nearly useless with rifles.

 

[sugarmaker]

Start at 10 feet, 3 rounds, to get on paper. Then 10 yards, then 25, 50, 100 out to whatever range. Sight using the hold used for a particular range. For high recoil guns (high power to weight) they are like a violin, sensitive to hold technique and you must sight them using your intended hold. Bags are helpful but you need to develop a feel for how the gun recoils in your hand so you can maintain that same recoil environment between rested and non rested use. Handguns require consistency of techniqe or POI is likely to change. Going bang bang at 7 yards maybe not so much but past 25 details matter.

 

[Varminterror]

Just like a rifle. I don’t believe in sighting a pistol to accommodate shooter failings - as doing so ensures your POI will change relative to your sights as you change positions or shooting hands.

If I remove an old set of sights to replace with new, I note the position of the old sights and start there with the new. If I don’t have that reference, I start centered. I verify with a laser, then zero live fire, shooting from a pistol rest. Most of the time, I could zero offhand, but it’s a lot faster to run it over the rest.

 

[cougar1717]

Adjustment of a typical, beveled base handgun sight with a sight pusher is very easy. You are literally only adjusting windage (left or right). Unless you are adjusting the height of the sights (either by a new sight with a different height or with a file), elevation is unaffected.

The concept of adjusting handgun sights are simple - you are just adjusting the sights to where the gun is already shooting. That means figuring out where it is shooting with relation to the current sight setting and adjusting from there. It is easier to start closer to get a consistent POA vs POI measurement to see how far it is off. It is easier to figure this out with light recoiling firearms. I will totally agree that heavy recoiling firearms require consistent aim and operation to accomplish this step.

The next is how far to adjust. If it is close, you may only have to make minor adjustments to get on target with either the front or rear sight. If the adjustment distance is extensive, I prefer to split the difference to keep the front sight as centered as possible. If it's identified with a "G and a number," rear sight adjustment is all you have.

While it is easy to look at the "wheel of misfortune" and comment on too much or too little trigger finger, we must remember that it was developed by the AMU for a specific handgun. While using the wheel can help some shooting skills, it's not the end all be all. Variations in the shooter's hand size, finger length, and the physical dimensions of the gun vary greatly. All that to say - don't feel bad if the sight orientation that puts you on target is not perfectly centered on the slide. Your sight alignment that gets you centered on target should be perfect, but not necessarily the sight orientation.

Lastly, handguns are not rifles. The sighting is less precise due to a shorter sight radius. So adjustments are typically less precise in comparison to rifles. That doesn't mean a person can't hit 2 liters at 100 yds, it's just that starting close and working out to greater distance saves you ammo.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

I prefer the 6 O'Clock hold in my Ransom Rest. What I use for the back board on my target stand out back is 'poster paper' with 1-inch grid squares. Starting a 25 yards it's really easy to dial the sights in for the load at hand:



Once the pistol/revolver is printing where I want it to.......the rest is up to me.

 

[jarhead0802]

Does that usually work? If I use a caliper to center my front and my rear sights in the center of the slide, should that generally get the pistol sighted in accurately?

it SHOULD be pretty close, but it will not be dead on.

 

[joneb]

If muzzle jump is factored in, muzzle jump will give different results from a ransom rest opposed to off hand shooting maybe. I regulate my sights to my off hand shooting eye. But thats just me.

 

[drband]

From the Ransom Rest web site: "Designed, thoroughly tested, and performance proven to duplicate the human wrist and hand action during shooting, but without the element of human error."

The Ransom Rest demonstrates what a shooter and gun with "perfect" technique could achieve and duplicates the positioning of the gun shot after shot. Recoil is managed in a straight-on-target manner with no variation in windage. It does allow for muzzle rise. A Ransom Rest will allow one to precisely determine POA/POI without external shooter influence. I wish I had one! They are prohibitively expensive in my opinion.

Until someone gives me one, I will continue to center my sights on the pistol and then shoot off of a rest at a bench, only making small adjustments. So far, that procedure has worked.

 

[BobWright]

Most of my guns come with adjustable sights, i.e. Ruger Blackhawks/Colt New Frontiers. My range has a bench that is not too stable, so I shoot standing with a two hand hold. I raise the rear sight to the halfway point in elevation and fire groups using my pet handloads. I file the front sight until I am pretty well centered in the bull, then make a few clicks one way or the other until I am centered. I normally sight in at twenty five yards, using a six o'clock hold on a six inch bull. This makes me about 3" above point of aim at twenty five yards. This is good to go for me over a wide range of distances.

Bob Wright

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

If muzzle jump is factored in, muzzle jump will give different results from a ransom rest opposed to off hand shooting maybe. I regulate my sights to my off hand shooting eye. But thats just me.

Umm, do you understand how a Ransom Rest actually works? The gun in play is allowed to recoil, and then must be reset down on a pad.

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

From the Ransom Rest web site: "Designed, thoroughly tested, and performance proven to duplicate the human wrist and hand action during shooting, but without the element of human error."

The Ransom Rest demonstrates what a shooter and gun with "perfect" technique could achieve and duplicates the positioning of the gun shot after shot. Recoil is managed in a straight-on-target manner with no variation in windage. It does allow for muzzle rise. A Ransom Rest will allow one to precisely determine POA/POI without external shooter influence. I wish I had one! They are prohibitively expensive in my opinion.

Until someone gives me one, I will continue to center my sights on the pistol and then shoot off of a rest at a bench, only making small adjustments. So far, that procedure has worked.

Don't hold your breath. As was posted, I want to find out how a particular handgun and specific choice of ammunition perform together, "without any human influence, or error", that will then create a benchmark for me, or a customer, to try and emulate. Having a business allows for equipment right-offs.

 

[drband]

So you’re getting a Ransom Rest?

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

So you’re getting a Ransom Rest?

Ummm, did you miss post #31?

 

[drband]

Ummm, did you miss post #31?

my bad!

This thread has really stretched out and I forgot who was who!

 

[OneFreeTexan]

Let’s see if I have this straight,,, You have spent several hundreds of dollars on one or more handguns, and yet, feel a Ranson Rest is to expensive......even if it will make you be a better shooter....

Confused here,,, please explain

 

[SGW Gunsmith]

People would be surprised how word gets around that I have one of these for testing handguns with a particular ammunition. I've gained quite a few new customers by just setting up my rest on my shooting bench out back and then letting them try various loads, or factory ammunition with their pistol or revolver locked down. The fixture is easy to use and once they're shown how to go at it, all of 'em are really happy with the information they carry away.

 

[PapaG]

Sandbags and a Rock rest. Carry guns are checked for zero at 7, 10 and 25 yards (the last one for fun). My hunting revolvers are sighted in at 25 and then 50 yards and my Contender at 50 and 100.
I remember Massad Ayoub writing an article years ago in American Handgunner about shooting against a Ransom Rest and beating it for groups as often as not. Technique can overcome technology, sometimes. When I'm on, I can shoot well. When I'm not, probably a Ransom wouldn't help.

 

[340PD]

As a Range Safety Officer, I get this question a lot. Using a standard bullseye target, I have them sight off a sandbag at 30' and then again at 50' because the further distance out one goes the more telling the sighting in process becomes. Then again, two hand hold at 30' and 50'.
Some time and ammo can be saved if you have a competent shooter step in and confirm you are moving in the right direction but remember everybody's sight picture and perception of what is "dead on" is different. Dominate eye can also affect the results. At some point in the journey, you get them set where you want, stop and come back another day to re-confirm. Then, it is time to bring Locktite into play on driftable dovetail sights.
My 2¢