Silencers

Discussion in 'Legal' started by film495, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. film495

    film495 Member

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    I thought silencers were an NFA and required a license, then I was reading some stuff about NH and VT making it leagal under some hunters hearing protection act. It is hard to tell what is real and not on the internet, and what decade it was pubished in, so - looking for links to anything official on current silencers ownership. NFA required, you can just have one someplaces, but not others?
     
  2. Mike OTDP

    Mike OTDP Member

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    Suppressors are NFA, nationwide. Some states have state laws prohibiting them. Some states have hunting laws that permit or prohibit their use.
     
  3. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

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    Be advised that even if a State has a law permitting ownership or possession of a suppressor without NFA formalities one still violates federal law (the NFA) if he possesses a suppressor without the proper NFA tax stamp. He won't be prosecuted by the State, but he can be arrested by federal agents, tried in federal court, and sent to federal prison.

    See the Constitution of the United States, Article VI, Clause 2:
     
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  4. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    The above posters have set it out correctly: (1) Federal law requires a federal tax stamp for all NFA items, including suppressors; and (2) State law may allow suppressors, but you still have to have the tax stamp to comply with federal law.
     
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  5. film495

    film495 Member

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    OK - thanks. I think I got confused when I was seeing some articles that stated it was Legal, but did not specificaly say with an NFA tax stamp, or you skim articles online and they don't say what year the were published so, it is hard to figure out was is accurate and current.
     
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  6. PapaG

    PapaG Member

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    Some states legal but still fed regulated.
     
  7. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    You might want to remember what Mark Twain is supposed to have said... "If you don't read a newspaper - you're un-informed... if you do read a newspaper - you're mis-informed". From my point of view, nothing has changed in that regard - about news items in any format. You're wise to do a bit of research to find out whether something you've read or heard is valid, misleading, or an out and out lie...
     
  8. Klaatu Barada Nikto
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    Klaatu Barada Nikto Contributing Member

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    Is there a link here somewhere so we can compare filing dates vs actual approval dates for Form 1 and Form 4's?
     
  9. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    www.nfatracker.com
     
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  10. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    A wholly and completely useless website and always has been. It was always data submitted by end users.
    1. "Average Time To Stamp Received (Rolling 12 Months)"..........False, because that chart hasn't been updated in years.
    2. "F4 Individual- EFile".......False, because eFile hasn't been available for Form 4's for over six years.
    3. Same with "F4 LLC/Corp-Efile"
     
  11. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    “Wholly and completely useless” is a bit harsh IMO. Just because the data is outdated doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate, at least in the case of the efile Form 4. Historically that may very well how long they took when they were still available.

    Yes, it’s end user reported but that also doesn’t mean it isn’t useful as a rough guide. Data is a collection of individual reports and there’s no reason to assume the individual reporting pages aren’t a decent sampling of the current state of approvals. You can go to the last 30 days listing and look at individual entries that are currently up to the end of December.

    Is there a better source somewhere?
     
  12. Klaatu Barada Nikto
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    Klaatu Barada Nikto Contributing Member

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    Yeah I thinking of something on this forum.
    9 months for me and nary a peep.
     
  13. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    When the chart claims to show a "Rolling 12 months" and doesn't it's not just outdated but the textbook definition of "inaccurate".

    Well, asking any SOT on this forum about current processing times is a far more accurate rough guide than NFA Tracker. Hell, I could say "ten months" and I'm already more up to date than NFA Tracker.....and processing for my paper F4's was ten months a year ago. Now its an average of six months.



    Except that there is no reason to assume it IS a representative sample. For Form 4's......who is submitting the data to NFA Tracker? The buyer or his FFL/SOT?
    How does the buyer know when the stamp was received by his dealer?
    How does the buyer know when the check was cashed?

    For F1's its easier, but for F4's accurate data isn't going to be provided by the buyer because its likely his dealer doesn't track check cashed/approved/mailed.....For one silencer it would be easy. But when you have two hundred silencers pending, no.



    Or I can look at the date I signed a Form 4 and the date it was approved by an ATF examiner. ;)



    Always. ATF NFA Branch issues these every ninety days:
    Paper::https://www.atf.gov/file/109676/download
    eForms: https://www.atf.gov/file/130416/download
     
  14. Klaatu Barada Nikto
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    Klaatu Barada Nikto Contributing Member

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    I don't understand the eForms. Don't they also require a finger print card?
    Went through Silencer Central, they seem to have their ducks in a row however I imagine they do a large volume of applications.
     
  15. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    I didn’t know those existed. Thanks.

    I meant the generic “you”


    You still have to submit a photo and prints. When you file the form you upload a photo. The system emails you a document with a barcode that you print and mail to ATF with your finger print cards.
     
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  16. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    Silencershop.com also has average ATF approval times on their site. I think it just applies to paperwork issued through them.

    I have not used Silencer Central. Silencer Shop has kiosks around where you can get your fingerprints scanned electronically. Once you do that, upload a photo, and fill in all your information, there is very little to do when you order the suppressor. They will also send finger print cards to you if you are buying outside their system.

    My local police department will do fingerprint cards for $10.
     
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  17. daniel craig

    daniel craig Member

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    So. Here’s how government works in the US. The Feds can make a law right? And then states can make law? See? They don’t necessarily have to be the same (see marijuana legislation) but they often are.

    Many times, but not always, when the feds make something illegal the states make it illegal also OR put EXTRA restrictions on the thing the feds said.

    Such is the case with suppressors. Feds say, “U can haz suppressor with this paperwork and stamp.” States then say “u no can haz suppressor period.”
     
  18. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll add the detail.

    1. The Constitution established the United States as a sovereign nation-state recognized as such by the community of nations. And at the time of the founding or our Republic each colony/State was a sovereign, political entity. (At the time of the founding of our nation each State effectively ceded some measure of sovereignty to join with the others to become the United States. How much sovereignty each would cede was a central issue in hashing out the Constitution.)

      • Thus the United States, and each State, has an attribute known as sovereignty. Sovereignty is --

        • https://thelawdictionary.org/sovereignty/:

        • https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/sovereignty:

      • An attribute of sovereignty is "police power." "Police power" means --

        • https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Police+Power:

        • https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/police%20power:

          So inherent in the sovereignty possessed by the United States (and each State comprising it) is the power to enact laws and hold all persons subject to its jurisdiction accountable for complying with those laws. And an attribute of sovereignty is that the sovereign entity incurs no liability for properly exercising that power, including, when necessary, resorting to the use of force.

        • The federal government doesn't have general, broad police power. Congress may enact laws only to the extent that the power to do so has been specifically delegated to it under Article I of the Constitution (e. g., regulation of interstate commerce, define crimes on the high seas, provide for the punishment of counterfeiting, etc.). On the other hand, as acknowledged in the Tenth Amendment, each State has broad police power, constrained by its constitution and certain provisions of the United States Constitution, e. g., the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

    2. See Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 U.S. 419, 2 Dall. 419, 1 L.Ed. 440 (1793):

      • at 423:

      • at 435:

      • at 436:

    3. See also, Bond v. United States, 131 S. Ct. 2355, 180 L.Ed.2d 269, 564 U.S. 211 (2011):

      • at 2364:

      • at 2366:
     
  19. glockgod

    glockgod Member

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    Or as I often say. I don't believe anything I hear and only half of what I read!!
     
  20. PapaG

    PapaG Member

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    Suppressors are NFA everywhere. Some states allow them. I'm sad to say mine doesn't. I envy anyone that doesn't live in Illinois except for maybe New York, New Jersey, California, Oregon or Washington and a few others. At least we are a shall issue state for CCW after you have got your FOID, jumped through a dozen hoops, got 16 hours training, yada, yada.
     
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