simple 1911 mag question

[piece of meat]

I used to have a RI 1911 and I noticed that when I tried to put a standard 8round mag into the gun with 8 rounds and one in the chamber (so it would be 8+1), the mag would not seat all the way. Found this weird since none of my other guns had ever had that issue. So basically i had to load the mag down one round for it to even seat in the gun.

Now I have a sig 1911 and just now I tried to put a standard wilson combat 8 round mag into the gun ( no chambered round) and the mag wil not seat properly. It will only seat when loaded with 7 rounds.

Is this just how they are designed?? I always thought an 8 round mag and 8+1 carry was standard..am I missing something here? And yes they are definitely 8 round mags

 

[Walkalong]

With the slide locked back it will be easy to seat, but yes, the extra pressure makes some 8 round mags harder to seat if the slide is forward. That is one reason we have seen the advent of the slightly extended 1911 mags with the big base pads.

 

[2wheels]

Yeah it's harder to seat some 8 rounders.

7 round mags are actually the "standard" 1911 magazine size, 8 rounders are harder to seat because they jammed that extra round in a tube that wasn't meant for 8. As Walkalong noted, some 8 rounders nowadays are slightly longer in order to get around this problem.

 

[rcmodel]

You just aren't slapping it on the butt hard enough.

Whack it and I bet it will seat!!

On the other hand?
There are a whole bunch of non-Colt 1911's and 1911's mags that are not really mil-spec 1911's, or mags.

So your mileage could vary with a Heinze-57 gun & mags.


rc

 

[MikeJackmin]

Others may disagree, but I don't like inserting mags with the slide closed. I'm never certain the mag catch is fully engaged into the magazine slot, and I've had magazines drop free after the first shot is fired. It's rare, but it does happen.

I prefer to lock the slide open, insert the fully loaded magazine nice and easy, and press the slide release. It's one less round, but one less worry, too.

 

[piece of meat]

Thanks for the replies. I got it to seat, had to slam it in pretty good. I think ill just stick to loading 7 per mag..just seems to work better that way all around.

 

[Jim K]

And if you hit it hard enough you will damage the magazine.

Here is the scoop. Take a look at about any auto pistol magazine and you will see there is a notch at the rear that is lower than the feed lips. That notch allows the slide to feed the top round of the magazine into the chamber.

Now if the magazine is put in the pistol with the slide forward, the slide will fit into that notch and push the top round down further into the magazine.

With the standard 7 round magazine, there is room for the top round to move down since the tail of the follower can move down and the spring won't go solid.

But with an 8 round magazine, the extra round and the same magazine length means that extra space is gone. There is no more room in the magazine for the column to move down. That means there is no way the magazine can be inserted with the slide closed. (Some makers managed to fudge a bit of extra room; some did not.)

And that means an 8 round magazine gives you 8 rounds in the pistol, not 8 + 1. Which means that the high price 8 round magazine gives you the same 8 rounds you get with a 7 round magazine if you load an 8th round in the chamber.

JIm

 

[tarosean]

Who is the magazine manufacturer?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Thanks for the replies. I got it to seat, had to slam it in pretty good. I think ill just stick to loading 7 per mag..just seems to work better that way all around.

Try it again in a month or two if you want that extra round. Mag springs (and all coil springs) will take a set and relax a bit with time and use. Not a lot. But I suspect you'll have less trouble, soon, loading the 8-round mag. It will likely relax a bit quicker if you leave the mag loaded, in the gun.

Some 8-round magazines have slightly different followers, which gives a HAIR more space. With them, you might be successful. Chamber a round, and then add a new round to the mag...and try again.

 

[bdickens]

I've never had that issue; I have always been able to seat my 8 round 1911 magazines just fine.

 

[bigfatdave]

This isn't even a "1911 thing".

The top round in the mag has to ride under the slide, then pop up when the slide goes aft - that's how autoloading pistols generally work.
When you stuff the mag into the gun, the stack of rounds gets pushed down a bit, generally about 1/2 a round's worth.

 

[Detritus]

Yeah have to add to the list of guys stating that in many 1911s a fully loaded 8-rd mag will not always seat under a closed slide. I've been lucky if you want to call it that. In all of the 1911s I've owned (4 so far) I've been able to seat an 8-rd McCormick shooting star under a closed slide without undue difficulty. on the latest two (a pair of Metro ACIIs) this is at least in part because the mag catch(es) have the mag sitting slightly lower in the frame that it really should. so I have to decide if I want to "fix" this issue possibly gaining the ability to reliably feed a wider selection of bullet profiles (want to get one to eat SWCs) at the possible cost of the ability to cram 8+1 into these guns, or leave well enough alone and stick with FMJ-RN and the two or three HP designs I've gotten them to reliably swallow.

There are a whole bunch of non-Colt... mags that are not really mil-spec mags.

Just a point of fact, unless USFA decided to market the repro. mags they had made for the first batch of their "1910" pistol, no-one makes or markets a legit original spec magazine anymore, Not even colt (last I heard colt was shipping Colt-marked Checkmate mags with the "Hybrid" feed lip pattern as factory issue).

the original mil-spec pattern (specifically the feed lip pattern) worked/works exceptionally with original RN profile 230gr FMJ bullet types, but sucks at feeding pretty much any other profile.
So as the desire among 1911 owners to shoot something other than "Hardball" became more common so did the prevalence of mags that release the round earlier in the cycle and allowed the likes of semi-wadcutters and more open nosed HPs to reliably feed.

construction techniques, well they evolved for reasons such as economy, ease of construction, and ease of maintenance.

 

[Drail]

It is what happens when you shove 8 rounds in a magazine designed to only hold 7.

 

[herrwalther]

Simple solution, just requires more steps. Load 8 rounds in the mag, lockback the 1911, insert, hit the release, eject mag, add one round, reinsert. Carry that extra .45 round with pride because not many 1911s can.

 

[Grayrock]

Carry that extra .45 round with pride because not many 1911s can.

This one can:

 

[Walt Sherrill]

This one can:

Awkward CARRY configuration, however... A "small-of-the-back" holster wouldn't do. You'd need a "all-of-the-back" holster to make it work. (Or, maybe, just a back pack.)

 

[Grayrock]

Makes for better stability with a three-handed grip

 

[herrwalther]

This one can:

That is one hell of a pinky rest. Fine fine fine. Standard 1911s with magazines close to flush with the bottom of the grip can't.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Makes for better stability with a three-handed grip

The first crew-served 1911?

 

[Robbins290]

Grayrock!!!!! Where did you get that beast? And does it function

 

[Aceoky]

And if you hit it hard enough you will damage the magazine.

Here is the scoop. Take a look at about any auto pistol magazine and you will see there is a notch at the rear that is lower than the feed lips. That notch allows the slide to feed the top round of the magazine into the chamber.

Now if the magazine is put in the pistol with the slide forward, the slide will fit into that notch and push the top round down further into the magazine.

With the standard 7 round magazine, there is room for the top round to move down since the tail of the follower can move down and the spring won't go solid.

But with an 8 round magazine, the extra round and the same magazine length means that extra space is gone. There is no more room in the magazine for the column to move down. That means there is no way the magazine can be inserted with the slide closed. (Some makers managed to fudge a bit of extra room; some did not.)

And that means an 8 round magazine gives you 8 rounds in the pistol, not 8 + 1. Which means that the high price 8 round magazine gives you the same 8 rounds you get with a 7 round magazine if you load an 8th round in the chamber.

JIm

I just checked a CMC powermag 8 rounder and the top round has plenty of room to move downward ... FWIW in fact so does the 10 rounder CMC PM

 

[Walt Sherrill]

But with an 8 round magazine, the extra round and the same magazine length means that extra space is gone. There is no more room in the magazine for the column to move down. That means there is no way the magazine can be inserted with the slide closed. (Some makers managed to fudge a bit of extra room; some did not.)

And that means an 8 round magazine gives you 8 rounds in the pistol, not 8 + 1. Which means that the high price 8 round magazine gives you the same 8 rounds you get with a 7 round magazine if you load an 8th round in the chamber.

That MIGHT be oversimplifying, a bit.

I know that SOME 8-round mags have different springs and followers than 7-rounders. With a number of other guns, a different follower can give slightly more space -- that's how some mags that were originally 15-rounders (in some 9mm guns) were modified to be 16 and 17 rounders, using the SAME springs.

I don't think the remarks above apply, across the board, to all 7- and 8-round 1911 mags.

 

[Urban_Redneck]

A knowledgeable friend told me if you are going to use hard to seat, +1 mags routinely, ditch the MIM slide stop and install a HD model from 10-8, Wilson, etc.

I use 8 round CMC Powermags and factory 7 round Springfield mags, both require little extra effort to seat on a closed slide.

YMMV

 

[Onmilo]

8 round magazines were designed to allow the 1911 pistol to carry a full load of 7+1 without having to hand load a round into the chamber or strip the first round into the chamber from a feeder magazine.
8 round magazines were specifically designed to be inserted into the weapon with the slide locked back, be it a fresh load or a reload.
If you really want more than 8 rounds in a .45 1911 then buy a Mec-Gar or Wilson Bureaucrat 10 shot mag and deal with a bit sticking out of your butt.
Call me dumb but I thought everyone knew this...

 

[Walt Sherrill]

8 round magazines were designed to allow the 1911 pistol to carry a full load of 7+1 without having to hand load a round into the chamber or strip the first round into the chamber from a feeder magazine.

8 round magazines were specifically designed to be inserted into the weapon with the slide locked back, be it a fresh load or a reload.

You may be correct, but upon what information do you base this set of statements?