Lenny62
Member
I've been using an inexpensive Simmons (Walmart) 60 power scope, and it's adequate out to 100 yards. I'm moving out to 300 yards soon, and don't have a big budget for another spotter scope. $300 bones tops. Suggestions?
Simple spotting scope question?
- Thread starter Lenny62
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CoalCrackerAl
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Good question i may be looking for a better one too. It would be cool if the Simmons ones would come with more powerful eye pieces like a telescope.
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Lenny62
Member
I'm tempted to try a Barska off Amazon.....
FROGO207
Member
I dunno, maybe find an inexpensive telescope. I have in the past just used an old Simmons scope held in my hand and looked at the target.
Gone Hiking
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I bought a Vortex Diamondback 20-60x85 angled spotting scope several years ago. I think it was $400 on sale at Cabela's at the time and my CC points covered it, so it didn't cost me anything out of pocket. It's a great scope!
Full info with MSRP from Vortex...
https://vortexoptics.com/diamondback-hd-20-60x85-angled.html
Almost as important, IMO, is that I also bought what is probably the best scope stand on the market. This thing is rock solid (I use it offhand at 200 and prone at 600 yds), and when the company owner stamps his cell number on the legs of the thing, you can be assured it's good!
https://gearbuggy.com/
Full info with MSRP from Vortex...
https://vortexoptics.com/diamondback-hd-20-60x85-angled.html
Almost as important, IMO, is that I also bought what is probably the best scope stand on the market. This thing is rock solid (I use it offhand at 200 and prone at 600 yds), and when the company owner stamps his cell number on the legs of the thing, you can be assured it's good!
https://gearbuggy.com/
JT-AR-MG42
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Don't think 300 will better your situation.
Best thing I would advise at 300 yards is the use of red/green targets(or the neon variations thereof.)
Black targets at distance do not do well with the budget scopes unless the lighting
situation is perfect and the light never stays the same with the changing angle of the sun.
JT
Best thing I would advise at 300 yards is the use of red/green targets(or the neon variations thereof.)
Black targets at distance do not do well with the budget scopes unless the lighting
situation is perfect and the light never stays the same with the changing angle of the sun.
JT
Good advice. Maybe if you are a junior you will see something at 300 yards, but maybe. Three hundred yards is a long way. Camp Perry had unusually clean air, and sometimes, during the rapids, I could see the first two shots, as I changed to the eight round magazine. Almost all the other ranges I have shot at, the mirage makes it impossible to see bullet holes at 300 yards. Some ranges, 200 yards is too far, as the air is soupy.
If you want to see bullet holes, you are going to have to use contrasting backers, or the red/green splatter targets. I have not tried the splatter targets, and they may not work either.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
Lenny next time i go to the range im going to take my Simmons along. And see if can see the 17 HMR hits on my splatter burst target at 200 yards. I could just make them out with the 22 hits with a 12x40 scope. I'll look at the 300 yard gongs too and see if i can see the bullet marks on them. You may be ok with the Simmons. I had it with the day i sighted in the A22. But had the tripod mount on my chrono. I'll be going again soon. Im not a fan of Barska products. Tried a few for my 22's. Took them all back to walmart. They wouldn't hold zero. Maybe it was just bad luck. But to me 3 strikes there are out.
What Slamfire said!
I started our club's highpower rifle program on a 200 yard range w/no pits. We struggled, trying to shoot 20 shot strings @ 600 yd reduced targets in S. Tx. humidity. Mirage made it impossible most days w/even expensive scopes, such as Unertl and Kowa, especially from prone (the closer to the ground your optics are, the more mirage interference). I even talked the club into purchasing a Unertl 100 mm team scope thinking it would resolve the problem....it did not!
As slamfire said, some days you can see bullet holes @ 200; many days, you cannot. It all depends upon the mirage, even with the best of the best scopes.
We ended up building a 600 yd range w/pits and sold the scope at a profit.
Regards,
hps
I started our club's highpower rifle program on a 200 yard range w/no pits. We struggled, trying to shoot 20 shot strings @ 600 yd reduced targets in S. Tx. humidity. Mirage made it impossible most days w/even expensive scopes, such as Unertl and Kowa, especially from prone (the closer to the ground your optics are, the more mirage interference). I even talked the club into purchasing a Unertl 100 mm team scope thinking it would resolve the problem....it did not!
As slamfire said, some days you can see bullet holes @ 200; many days, you cannot. It all depends upon the mirage, even with the best of the best scopes.
We ended up building a 600 yd range w/pits and sold the scope at a profit.
Regards,
hps
shoobe01
Member
Only thing in that price ballpark I can suggest is this brand.
https://www.amazon.com/Vanguard-Endeavor-HD-82A-Waterproof/dp/B00BJFAYJ2/
(There are a bunch, search for other models)
Punches well above it's weight, absolutely better than the low end Athlon, around as good as the $600+ Vortex for a lot less. Barska, Yukon, are no go to me. Used them, but not on the same page. No, is not going to stand next to one of the best from Kowa. The Vanguard (or Vortex...) is good for .30 holes at 300 yds in almost all conditions. .22 holes can be iffy at that range, depends on mirage and wind moving the tripod. Even 6.5 can be marginal sometimes.
May be worth spending more like only $100 on a pretty good tripod and head for the existing one, saving up for later to get an even better spotter. Bad tripods will make any scope hard to use, often exaggerates the issues of a low- or mid-grade optic. A rock solid mediocre image might do what you need.
https://www.amazon.com/Vanguard-Endeavor-HD-82A-Waterproof/dp/B00BJFAYJ2/
(There are a bunch, search for other models)
Punches well above it's weight, absolutely better than the low end Athlon, around as good as the $600+ Vortex for a lot less. Barska, Yukon, are no go to me. Used them, but not on the same page. No, is not going to stand next to one of the best from Kowa. The Vanguard (or Vortex...) is good for .30 holes at 300 yds in almost all conditions. .22 holes can be iffy at that range, depends on mirage and wind moving the tripod. Even 6.5 can be marginal sometimes.
May be worth spending more like only $100 on a pretty good tripod and head for the existing one, saving up for later to get an even better spotter. Bad tripods will make any scope hard to use, often exaggerates the issues of a low- or mid-grade optic. A rock solid mediocre image might do what you need.
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Lenny62
Member
The Simmons 60x I'm using now is iffy at 100 yards. I'm shooting .223 W and a .224V uppers.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
I just noticed on mine the eye piece is adjustable. It goes from 20x to 60x. What a difference it makes. I had it out on the back deck looking out on the mountain. I think it will dandy at the range now.
Bwana John
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There is no free lunch.
Especially when it comes to optics.
To be able to reliably see .22 holes in the black at 300 yards just ain't gonna happen for $300 retail.
I can barely do it with 30 cal holes in the black without perfect light and atmosphere, and I dropped ~$1k on a Kowa. (Quite a bit more when you add mount, stand, dust lenses, padded cover...)
There is a reason for target pits and target disc spotters.
Especially when it comes to optics.
To be able to reliably see .22 holes in the black at 300 yards just ain't gonna happen for $300 retail.
I can barely do it with 30 cal holes in the black without perfect light and atmosphere, and I dropped ~$1k on a Kowa.
(Quite a bit more when you add mount, stand, dust lenses, padded cover...)There is a reason for target pits and target disc spotters.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
Yeah on plain black paper it will be hard.
PRD1
Member
FWIW, no magnification above about 20x will help in spotting bullet holes at 200 yards or more. Mirage renders fine definition impossible, and higher magnification just makes the situation worse. And that is true of the 100mm Unertl my Army teammates and I used, as it is of lesser scopes. Buy a good quality scope; variable if you think to use it for other purposes as well as shooting, and you can soon verify the facts.
PRD1 - mhb - MIke
PRD1 - mhb - MIke
At $300 and at 300 yards you will not find a scope that will grant you the desired results you seek. Atmospheric conditions play havoc and your target may disappear occasionally if the weather is hot and your mirage will be magnified as well. In my opinion, I would wait as long as it takes to save another 3 to 500 dollars more on top of what you already have, if not you just blew $300.
Lo-Profile
Member
I had a cheap spotting scope. Don't remember even what it was. I was so disappointed in it I have it away and bought a Leupold .... Haven't looked back.
A good spotting scope will last you a lifetime of aggravation over a cheaper one. But the best you can to begin with.
A good spotting scope will last you a lifetime of aggravation over a cheaper one. But the best you can to begin with.
Took this out yesterday to a Smallbore Prone match.
This was a state of the art spotting scope in the late 1980's, purchased it new, and it is still a darn good scope. Prices for used ones are surprisingly high on ebay, you are not going to get one for less than $500.00, and that is a lot for a forty year old scope.
It was hot!. The mirage was like soup at times. There were times though my irons, the view looked like someone had put a pane of glass in front of the target, and coated it with vasoline. Had a difficult time spotting the hits at 100 yards. Not certain how heat stress affected my vision, but it sure affected my pulse.
This was a state of the art spotting scope in the late 1980's, purchased it new, and it is still a darn good scope. Prices for used ones are surprisingly high on ebay, you are not going to get one for less than $500.00, and that is a lot for a forty year old scope.
It was hot!. The mirage was like soup at times. There were times though my irons, the view looked like someone had put a pane of glass in front of the target, and coated it with vasoline. Had a difficult time spotting the hits at 100 yards. Not certain how heat stress affected my vision, but it sure affected my pulse.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
I can't give a report on how the scope worked today. I took the tripod it comes with along. Absolute junk! I'll use my old school heavy tri-pod i use for my chronograph next time.
Bwana John
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What "might" be had for much less money than good conventional optics which have their limitations, and actually work better is a camera with transmitter set up at the target, and a receiver with screen set up at the shooters position.
Ill bet a tech-geek could do it pretty cheaply and easily.
Ill bet a tech-geek could do it pretty cheaply and easily.
Forgot to mention, what is just as important is a tripod for your spotting scope. At 300 yards if you do not have a good quality one, a breeze slightly stronger than a fly passing gas will render your $300 spotting scope just as useless. I would recommend a Manfrotto Tripod or other good quality tripods. This will cost as much as your spotting scope. I paid over $200 for mine 20+ years ago. Just so you know. When it comes to optics and that distance nothing comes cheap. There is just no getting around it other than walking 300 yards to your target to only find out you missed.
At those distances I use the Shoot N C targets or plain white poster board with a small circle drawn in the center with a sharpie. You are able to better see a bullet hole on white or the Shoot NC targets. Everyone so far has given great advice, so it is up to you as to what you do next.
At those distances I use the Shoot N C targets or plain white poster board with a small circle drawn in the center with a sharpie. You are able to better see a bullet hole on white or the Shoot NC targets. Everyone so far has given great advice, so it is up to you as to what you do next.
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CoalCrackerAl
Member
Im thinking about this one. That way i cant forget the mount piece on my chronograph.
Amazon.com : UBeesize 67” Camera Tripod with Travel Bag, Cell Phone Tripod with Wireless Remote and Phone Holder, Compatible with All Cameras, Cell Phones, Projector, Webcam, Spotting Scopes : Electronics
Amazon.com : UBeesize 67” Camera Tripod with Travel Bag, Cell Phone Tripod with Wireless Remote and Phone Holder, Compatible with All Cameras, Cell Phones, Projector, Webcam, Spotting Scopes : Electronics
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Lenny62
Member
That gives me some ideas!
I bookmarked this article on spotting scopes and could not find it. It is an old old article but still applies to todays scopes. It is a good read.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/howto/how-to-choose-a-spotting-scope-for-target-shooting.html
Also if you go to birding websites they have great resources and informations on spotting scopes.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/howto/how-to-choose-a-spotting-scope-for-target-shooting.html
Also if you go to birding websites they have great resources and informations on spotting scopes.
I picked up one of these from a pawn shop for $60. That included the tripod.
Redfield Factory Blemished Rampage Spotting Scope 20-60x 80mm Angled (midwayusa.com)
I almost always leave it on 20X and have no issues seeing any bullet holes at 200 yards or less. I've found going over about 25-30X and it is worse than on lower magnification. At 300 yards things are much more difficult.
Redfield Factory Blemished Rampage Spotting Scope 20-60x 80mm Angled (midwayusa.com)
I almost always leave it on 20X and have no issues seeing any bullet holes at 200 yards or less. I've found going over about 25-30X and it is worse than on lower magnification. At 300 yards things are much more difficult.
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