Single-action grip sizes?

[LoneGoose]

I've been mulling over this question for a while, and hope I can communicate clearly what it's all about. I need to give the history on this before asking. Here goes:

I went to the store to buy a blackpowder revolver. I ended up buying the Pietta 1860 because it fit my hand so well. I was comparing with (I think) an 1858. The other revolver's grip was smaller than the one I chose. I have since seen references to "army grips" and "navy grips". I assume that these refer to the grip frame size on different revolvers, navy being shorter.

I subsequently bought a Uberti 1860 Conversion, which was also a perfect fit, and a Uberti Smoke Wagon Deluxe (an internet buy). The Smoke Wagon has a shorter grip frame (1/4" - 3/8") that rests the bottom edge of the grip on the heel of my palm. I thought that this model is a version of the 1873 Cattleman, which I thought was a reproduction of the Colt Single-Action Army. And which I thought would have "army" grips. To confuse me even more, I have seen reference to a "P model" which seems to have "navy" grips.

So, does the Colt SAA have the larger grip frame? I'll not be getting rid of my Smoke Wagon, but is there an inexpensive way to retrofit a large grip frame to it? I got fatter grips from Tombstone, which fill my hand better, but there is still not the perfect fit that I would like. Are there reproductions of the SAA that come with the larger grip frame?

Someone might admonish me that I should have done my homework, but I thought I had. There was just the one question I didn't know to ask. So please educate me. Thanks, everyone.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Don't be confused by the name Single Action Army. When this model came out in 1873 it had the same grip frame shape as the 36 caliber Colt Model 1851 Navy Cap & Ball revolver. The Colt 1860 Army Cap & Ball revolver had a grip frame about 1/4" longer than the earlier Navy, but Colt resurrected the 1851 grip frame shape for the 1873 SAA.

For what it's worth, when I shoot a Colt Single Action Army, or any replica of one, I always curl my pinky finger under the grip. I do not try to cram my entire hand onto the grip.

 

[CraigC]

As you've surmised, the SAA has the Navy grip.

I love the Colt SAA and its grip shape and probably have two dozen guns with it or a similar grip but I like the 1860 Army even better. There are a few models of replicas that have the longer grip frame. I know the new octagon barreled Pietta that Cimarron is marketing has the longer grip frame. The parts can also be easily retrofitted within the same brand.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Howdy

Don't be confused by the name Single Action Army. When this model came out in 1873 it had the same grip frame shape as the 36 caliber Colt Model 1851 Navy Cap & Ball revolver. The Colt 1860 Army Cap & Ball revolver had a grip frame about 1/4" longer than the earlier Navy, but Colt resurrected the 1851 grip frame shape for the 1873 SAA.

For what it's worth, when I shoot a Colt Single Action Army, or any replica of one, I always curl my pinky finger under the grip. I do not try to cram my entire hand onto the grip.

Good info and +1 on the pinky under.

I have small hands and I do that too.

I discovered that it was the best way after I ran a 73 clone in a USPSA style match. Check my channel for the video.

 

[BobWright]

At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, here is my Colt Single Action Army (second from left) that I fitted with the backstrap from an 1851 Navy Colt:



The Single Action on the extreme right is a Hy Hunter Western Six Shooter. The brass trigger guard is from a Uberti and the backstrap is from a Hawes Western Marshal, grips are home made. Steel grips straps are available, but any fitting requires re-blueing, while brass is easier to fit and requires no refinishing. But generally, any Single Action (excludes Rugers and Remington replicas) grip straps can be adapted to any other Single Action.

Bob Wright

 

[LoneGoose]

That's a sweet-looking collection.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Here is a photo that may help explain things. At the top is a Pietta replica of the Cap & Ball 1860 Army Colt. Sorry, I don't have a real one. At the bottom is a 2nd Gen Colt Single Action Army.

The grip of the 1860 Army is about 3/8" longer than the grip of the SAA, which uses the basic grip shape of the 1851 Navy Colt. Notice too that the 45 caliber cylinder of the SAA is larger in diameter than the 44 percussion cylinder. So the frame of the SAA had to be taller to accept the larger cylinder, and the addition of a top strap makes the SAA frame even taller.

 

[LoneGoose]

A picture is worth a thousand words. It's as plain as day - the SAA grip is definitely shorter. Sweet guns, there.

 

[MaxP]

I know the new octagon barreled Pietta that Cimarron is marketing has the longer grip frame. The parts can also be easily retrofitted within the same brand.

This is the gun you speak of:

 

[gotboostvr]

There's some fine looking pistols in this thread, but I REALLY like the look of that Cimarron, MaxP!

 

[CraigC]

That one's got some great colors!

 

[Sistema1927]

I find the grip size of the 1851/1873 to be almost perfect. Yes, the pinkie rides under, but that causes no difficulty, at least for me. It just feels right.

 

[the Black Spot]

I installed the 1860 grip frame on my 7.5" model P in 44 special.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I find the grip size of the 1851/1873 to be almost perfect. Yes, the pinkie rides under, but that causes no difficulty, at least for me. It just feels right.

There is an added advantage to not trying to cram one's entire hand onto the grip of a SAA or clone. I'll never forget one day at a CAS match one of my friends was wrapping bandaides around the middle finger of his shooting hand before shooting a stage. He was doing this because the trigger guard continually whacked the knuckle of his middle finger in recoil. It was then that I realized that even with my stoutly loaded Black Powder 45 Colt rounds, I was not getting my finger whacked.

If one tries to cram the entire hand onto the grip of a SAA or replica, the knuckle of your middle finger is usually either in contact with the trigger guard, or else it is right next to it. So if you are shooting a round with any recoil to it at all, the trigger guard whacks your knuckle, and after a while it starts to hurt. On the other hand, if you curl your pinky under the grip, it causes you to shift your hold a bit down on the grip. Which tends to open a gap of about 1/4" between the back of the trigger guard and the knuckle of your middle finger. That 1/4" is all it takes to keep the triggerguard from whacking your knuckle in recoil. Try it and you will see.

Now, this is of course counter to everything we have been taught about shooting a handgun. The commonly accepted idea is that the higher up you hold on the gun, the less muzzle flip there will be because the point of resistance to rotation is closer to the centerline of the bore. That's all well and good with a 1911 or other semi-auto where you cannot physically position a finger behind the trigger guard. There is no way to get whacked by the triggerguard. Different story with a revolver, most of which have a space behind the triggerguard. That's one reason why oversized target grips are shaped the way they are, and Tyler T Grips too. Less opportunity to place a finger directly behind the triggerguard. But with a SAA or replica, with the factory grips, cram your entire hand onto the grip and fire a round with sizeable recoil, not Cowboy 38 Special loads, and you will get your knuckle whacked.

Try it some time, you may like it.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

The Ruger New Vaquero is close to the dimensions of a Colt SAA and therefore has a smallish grip frame. It replaced the Vaquero which was a fixed sight version of the Ruger Blackhawk and has a larger cylinder, frame and grip frame.

The "original" Vaquero is a good choice for shooters with larger hands.

 

[CraigC]

I guess I have to take issue with the notion that the Colt SAA/Navy/New Vaquero grip is "smaller". It's the same profile as the Army grip, only 3/8" shorter. It's the same basic size/shape as the XR3-RED of the Vaquero, which is just extended rearward at the top to allow more room behind the triggerguard. Which does help if you have really thick fingers.

The Colt Pocket models and Ruger Bearcat have a "smaller" grip.

IMHO, many complain about the Colt SAA/Navy (or SA's in general) grip being too small and I believe it's because they're trying to cram all their fingers onto the grip, rather than tucking the pinky under.

 

[jgh4445]

I bought an 1860 Army grip frame and trigger guard for my Uberti El Patron. While I can easily get the metal parts to line up and fit well, I haven't found a set of grips that will fit without a lot of fitting by me. Don't think I have the talent to do the fitting. I'd like a set of slightly aged faux Ivory.

 

[Armybrat]

I don't like tucking my pinky finger under the grip of my new Super Blackhawk 5.5", so am going to preplace the grip frame & wood panels with the longer type that comes on the SBH Hunter model.

 

[CraigC]

I'm at my limit with the SAA/Navy/XR3 grip frame and heavy .44Spl loads. Need something longer for anything heavier. I like the Colt Bisley and 1860 patterns too but need a Ruger Bisley for anything more serious.

That said, I'm planning on some custom builds based on Colt's/replicas that will involve two guns. One a .38-40, the other a .44Spl. One a Bisley grip, the other an 1860 grip. Both will involve custom oversized cylinders and be used for the .44Spl Keith load and .38-40 loads consisting of a 180gr at perhaps 1400fps and maybe 220's at 1200fps. Might do a convertible and resurrect the .401Powermag to make life a little easier.

 

[LoneGoose]

jgh4445, if you're willing to give it a try, look at the Tombstone Gun Grips website. Dave has all of the info you would need to fit his 90% fitted grips onto your gun. I bought a set, and they were easy to work with. In fact, I just ordered another set for a different revolver yesterday.

 

[LoneGoose]

I want to say thank you to your suggestions and information. I swapped grip frames and triggerguards between my 1860 Conversion and my Smoke Wagon. Now the larger grip is on the larger frame with the longer barrel, and the smaller grip is on the smaller frame with the shorter barrel. They both LOOK better and both FEEL better. Each gun has the grip it needs to make a great fit for me. (Now if I can ever figure out why my pictures go sideways.)

 

[LoneGoose]

CraigC, You're way out of my league. I'm shooting light 240 grain .44 Russians in the 1860 Conversion and moderate 250 grain .45 Colts in the Wagon. I do occasionally shoot hot .44 Specials in my S&W 629 Classic with Hogue rubber grips. And rarely do shoot full-house .44 Magnums in it - just to remember what it's like.