Single Action technique, grip and cocking

[westernrover]

Shooting a single action (Vaquero) I have a couple questions.

I understand there are three grip techniques where the thumb is on the middle finger, the top of the grip panel, or straight against the recoil shield. I find the thumb on the middle finger grip results in the grip slipping and the gun rolling back the most. The thumb against the recoil shield results in the gun rolling the least. But when I put the thumb there, pointed straight, it pushes the base of the thumb back and I lose some of the pressure on the backstrap unless I bend the thumb up. Is it better to keep the thumb straight with the bore and have less pressure on the backstrap, or is it better to bend the thumb and squeeze the backstrap?

Second question is about cocking with one hand (duelist style). I understand to catch the hammer spur with the side of the thumb rather than hooking it across the spur. What kind of equipment can help with this technique? Is the Blackhawk hammer better than the Vaquero for single-hand? Does a lower weight Wolff hammer spring help? Or is the stock Vaquero hammer and spring the best and most reliable?

 

[JohnB-40]

The first thing I did with my Vaquero was fit a Blackhawk hammer. The spur is lower and wider and I can cock it a lot easier with my thumb in a more natural position.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

At first I had absolutely no idea what you were talking about. Thumb is on the middle finger? My thumbs are nowhere near my middle fingers, they are both kind of near my index fingers.

Then, finally it occurred to me you are asking about shooting a Vaquero with a two hand grip. That is why I did not understand. I always shoot a single action revolver one handed. The other hand is never anywhere near the gun.

Here are a couple of photos you may find useful, no matter how many hands you use.

I always curl my pinky under the grip of a single action revolver. The reason is, if I try to cram my entire hand onto the grip, the knuckle of the middle finger gets whacked in recoil from any sort of stout load. Curling my pinky under the grip lowers my hand on the grip a bit, opening up a gap of about 1/4" between the trigger guard and my knuckle. This 1/4" keeps my knuckle from getting whacked.






As for cocking the hammer, I have fairly large hands, and holding the gun this way allows me to reach the hammer with my thumb. You can see how my thumb engages the hammer spur. Not with the side, but with the fleshy pad. Pretty much impossible to roll the thumb the way you describe, that is the way it is done when holding the gun with two hands and cocking the hammer with the off hand.






It is also worth stating that I do not hold the gun with a death grip. I allow the grip to rotate slightly in my hand in recoil. This brings the hammer spur closer to my thumb. Then, I regrip slightly as I lower the gun from recoil.


If you want to know more about shooting with a 'squaw grip' you might ask on the SASS Wire.

Most of the really fast shooters use two hands and can go into great detail about their technique.

https://www.sassnet.com/forums/index.php?&&&CODE=00

 

[Tallball]

"It is also worth stating that I do not hold the gun with a death grip. I allow the grip to rotate slightly in my hand in recoil."

Me too. I prefer to grip my SA revolvers a little more loosely than my other handguns. I was also taught to grip them with my pinkie underneath the grip. I allow the revolver to roll up just a little bit as it recoils. Apparently all of this works for me, as I shoot my SA revolvers better than any of my other handguns.

 

[labnoti]

Sorry for the confusion. I am certainly talking about shooting with one-hand only. Look at the picture of your grip. Your thumb is on the middle finger. The other possible places for it are on the top of the grip panel (near the big screw) or against the back of the recoil shield. My first question is all about that thumb.

My second question is about cocking with that thumb, not with the other hand. I described two techniques. The first starts with the thumb across the saddle of the hammer spur. You're clearly not doing that, and I don't want to either because it torques the gun around too much. The question isn't how the thumb starts on the spur, but how it comes off the spur after the hammer is cocked. Where does your thumb finish the cock just before it comes off the hammer spur and goes back to the middle finger?

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

OK

Regarding the placement of the thumb on the grip, that is the only place I have ever placed it. Have never even considered placing it anyplace else.

Here is a sequence of photos I took last year of cocking a Colt. I had to look at the photos a couple of times, I thought maybe I had somehow reversed the photos. Then I got the old Colt out to look at it. Yup, the loading gate is on the right, of course. Turns out I was holding the gun in my left hand because I was holding the camera in my right hand. No matter, the technique is the same with either hand. As I pull the hammer down with my thumb, the thumb rolls into the hollow of the hammer spur. I'm playing around with the gun right now, and my thumb does slide off to the left side of the hammer slightly as the hammer goes to full cock. That is the most natural.















Maybe after I'll take another sequence from the top, showing the angle of the thumb.

 

[MaxP]

A two-handed grip has its advantages in that the support hand can handle cocking chores with your shooting hand stays put on the grip
(no disruption of your grip).

 

[Pat Riot]

I have tried different one-handed grip styles in my single actions and what has always worked for me is positioning my thumb in a natural grip resting on my middle finger.

Another thing I do is I run slim grip panels on my single action revolvers. I do not have small hands, I wear size XXL gloves. Narrower grips help me “control the roll” and maintain better control for follow up shots. I use Altamont “Slim” grips.

On my New Vaqueros I run the factory hammer with factory springs. The guns are smaller than the original model Vaqueros. On my Vaquero, I only have one now, I run the Super Blackhawk hammer. I run a reduced hammer spring. Wolfe 19#. Some people go lower on spring weights. I will not.

The main thing is practice.

 

[MaxP]

I would also add that single-handed grips are fine with low recoil levels. When recoil starts getting memorable, the two-handed grip styles start to shine.

Here's a video that Gun Digest put up last week that we shot that shows the technique that I use to control heavier recoil levels. It might be of interest and use.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8agXeC38Ftk

 

[Dave T]

Max,

The OP is a CAS shooter who wants to play in the Duelist class, i.e. one handed.

Dave

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

With all due respect, while my Black Powder 45 Colt loads do not approach 44 Mag pressures, they are certainly not Milquetoast loads.

About 35 grains of FFg under a 250 grain bullet.

Before the shot:







Recoil:






I always shoot my CAS pistols with one hand.

 

[MaxP]

It wasn’t meant as a dig. It is relative however. The .45 Colt loads I’m referencing run a 335 grain bullet over 1,300 FPS. Again, it wasn’t meant as an insult.

 

[MaxP]

Max,

The OP is a CAS shooter who wants to play in the Duelist class, i.e. one handed.

Dave

Dave, that wasn’t clear to me in the OP. I apologize for confusing matters.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Understood. No insult taken.

The guy in the video referred to Milquetoast loads.

I simply wanted to point out that while my loads do not approach pressure and velocity and bullet weight loads that he was talking about, they are not the typical loads one tends to associate with CAS.

Last time I put them over a chronograph they were doing something around 800 fps. About the same as the old 19th Century Black Powder loads.

 

[MaxP]

Understood. No insult taken.

The guy in the video referred to Milquetoast loads.

I simply wanted to point out that while my loads do not approach pressure and velocity and bullet weight loads that he was talking about, they are not the typical loads one tends to associate with CAS.

Last time I put them over a chronograph they were doing something around 800 fps. About the same as the old 19th Century Black Powder loads.

I’m the guy in the video. I guess when you reach my level of numb, heavy recoil takes on a different meaning - LOL! Again, no insult was meant.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I’m the guy in the video. I guess when you reach my level of numb, heavy recoil takes on a different meaning - LOL! Again, no insult was meant.

Well, you certainly are a handsome guy. And you can take recoil better than me.

I suspect those loads would blow up my Colt.

I think I will stay away from them.

 

[MaxP]

Well, you certainly are a handsome guy. And you can take recoil better than me.

I suspect those loads would blow up my Colt.

I think I will stay away from them.

Hahahahaha! Thanks I guess! I’m strictly a handgun hunter so I put up with the discomfort in order to eek out as much terminal goodness as I can. Again, I’m a bit numb (just ask my wife ).

Hope I didn’t offend as it was not my intention.

 

[Hondo 60]

What kind of equipment can help with this technique?

The Uberti El Patron Competition has Wolff springs & a lowered hammer spur.
This makes for a perfect single hand cocking & firing.
https://www.uberti-usa.com/1873-cattleman-el-patron-competition-revolver

As far as the grip goes, I find it easy to put pressure on both hands equally.
I guess my thumbs are short enough to do that & keep the thumbs straight.

 

[Varminterror]

I run my thumb wrapped around, as you’re calling it - “on my middle finger”. That closes a “ring” around the grip neck, letting the recoil roll the revolver in my hand. The pinking and ring finger then tighten to pull it back into the bottom of my palm as my thumb swings up and anchors on the hammer, so the weight of the muzzle and my pinky/ring finger are really doing the cocking work, then the thumb just falls back to the middle finger, re-closing the ring for the next shot.

Then again, most of the time, I was a Warthog running 240grn 44mag loads at 950fps out of large frame Vaqueros, so my revolvers bucked a lot. When I shot 32H&R Single Sixes, they didn’t buck nearly as much, and my thumb did a lot more of the work - but my times were a lot faster!

 

[CraigC]

Most of my Rugers get a Wolff 17lb hammer spring. I also prefer a standard hammer, over one with a lower spur.

My grip looks like this, whether I'm shooting with one hand or two, .22LR or .500JRH.



One handed cocking goes like this: