Single shot action strength ??

[smokemaker]

I just purchased one of my holy grail rifles... A real Remington No. 1 Rolling Block mid-range sporter in .45-70. I haven't tried to see when it was made, but I know it's one of the recent custom shop guns, and it has a low serial #. Bought used, but the former owner never shot it. So basically I have a new gun.
My question is, how strong is the rolling block action? Accurate Arms data shows two groups, trapdoorsin one, and Sharps, Marlin 1895's, Winchester 1886, Ruger #1 and #3. No mention of modern Rolling Blocks. I don't plan on running the loads up to 40,000psi, but I'd like to go higher than the 18,000 psi set for trapdoor springfields, into the standard loading-28,000psi as a max.
I'm not looking to make a .458WM out of it, just give it a little more punch than the black powder duplicate loads.

(And if I have to stick to trapdoor loads, and suggestions beyond 5744?)

 

[griz]

If I understand you correctly, it's an origonal Rolling Block. That means nothing more than black powder pressures. Even if the action is a little stronger than the trap doors, steel from 100 years ago is nowhere near as good as they are today.

 

[Terrierman]

A modern Remington rolling block will be in the strong action group.

 

[Jim Watson]

Ken Waters divided .45-70 actions into three strength groups. He put new made Rolling Blocks in Group II along with Winchester '86 and loaded 405s to 1650 fps. Remington's lawyers would not have let them sell anything that would not handle 28K SAAMI loads.

(He rated original Rolling Blocks in Group I because of metallurgy, wear on old guns, and firing pin diameter. A RR is a strong action, but if you push it too far, and blow a casehead to release gas into the boxy receiver, it fragments like an 8mm in a brittle low number '03. A Trapdoor is not as strong but does not fail catastrophically.)

 

[fineredmist]

Do you enjoy shooting? I mean more than 5 or 6 rounds, than load that RR to BP velocities and have fun. Heavy loads in a .45-70 are no fun for a long shooting session. I shoot an Uberti 1885 High Wall with BP equivalent loads and it is just plain fun. I have been using 28 gr. of H4198 with a 405 gr. Lazer Cast bullet but I am working up a load with Varget that is looking good. The velocities of both rounds are in the 1300 fps range but the Varget seems to give much lower extreme spread.
If you really want to shoot heavy loads go to a Rugar #1 or #3 as they are designed to do just that. The basic design of the RR was for low pressure loads, all the recoil is handled by the 2 cross pins which hold the block and hammer in place. It is not a strong design to begin with so why push your luck.
Shoot it with BP loads and really enjoy shooting.

 

[smokemaker]

Thanks for the help, y'all.
It is a newer manufactured RB, made by Remington out of their custom shop. I was looking to get 420 hard cast bullets to around 1500fps. This would make the reloading easier for me and my father, as that load is what we shoot out of his 1886's, and I'd be using his bench for reloading, at least for now. I wasn't looking for Marlin 1895 or Ruger #1 pressures, just standard pressures.

Fineredmist- I do enjoy shooting, and have no problem with the recoil generated by the 420 grain load at the velocities stated above. This is when shooting a USRA 1886 takedown with the crescent buttplate, or a USRA 1886 extralight rifle (shotgun buttplate). I believe the RB with it's shotgun buttplate will be quite manageable. And BTW, we shoot about 20 rounds per session from the retro guns, and usually take a .22lr or some such softer rifle along to break up the punishment from the big guns. I believe recoil managment is more than just sucking it up and getting beat on.

Now we have loaded those 420's to 1800fps or so, and it's a real handful. That load won't be fed into the RB.

 

[buttrap]

Even the old ones are pretty tough guns. The main issue is the firing pin hole size as a lot used a very big hole that with hot loads you can get peirced primers and one heck of a bad day. I used to use loading data for the brit 500express in the 50-70 I used to have and it did just fine. I still have one of the military musket jobs in 7x57 but keep the loads backed down to around original pressure of the GI loads of the time. I push that much and the block well get a bit of flex that makes the case base a bit off center even though its a tight action.