Single Shot for HD?

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Wonder why all the folks saying one ain't as good as 8 aren't laying down the 200 bucks tax for a full auto? For some folks in some situations, the old single works just fine. Many times in my life I lived in places where you're biggest concern was a rabid coon on the porch. I miss those days. Course, what do I know I kept a SXS by the bed side for years. Now there ain't nothing there but a 1911 and I sleep the sleep of babes.
 
Bad guys have friends too.
Click to expand...

I admit I have not attended a known gun school...
I concede I am not as near qualified as Louis Awerbuck...
One of these days I hope to move up to a Double Barrel Shotgun for defensive use like Awerbuck uses.


I was in Memphis recently, and in that garment bag was a RRA AR with Five 20 rd mgs, a LNIB BHPloaded with 4 loaded mags, on my person was a 1911 with a 7 rd mag, one spare, a Kel-Tec P-11 with 10 rds.

I had 5K rds of Black Hills .223, and 2500 rds of Black Hills 9mm

Just "over there" were 4 body guards, with who knows what all, plus other folks I was there to meet with guns on persons and in reach.

There is always the concern of BGs having friends.

My shotguns for this "jaunt", one 20ga single shot shotgun, youth model and one old JC Higgins 20 bore, with a 21" barrel.

I prefer slugs.

I was "lax" this trip, I did not bring the Model 29 with full house .44 mag loadings.

I know about Professional Thugs shooting at you on the road and that is why I like the .44 and using hardball in .45ACP and 9mm.

Oh...one little thing I do on a serious single shot for travel, I prefer a heavy steel butt-plate.
I know what a steel butt will do to a head in Close Quarters.

I know what a single shot will do in the hands of someone that knows how to run the gun too.
I have watched two fire bombs shot out of the air and never reach a front porch.
Seen straights run in skeet and trap, doubles on doves, quail, ducks, and two deer taken back to back.

Firearms are NOT the only tool,and NO tool is ever better than the user of said tool.

Some folks have to "go in sterile" - no guns, no knives, and metal detectors, wands, and being patted down makes sure.

Great "lessons" learned, to NOT be dependent on a firearm of any kind, and therefore round count is "better understood".

Hotels /Motels bolt down TVs, LampsPictures, Mirrors, dresser drawers do not come all the way out....

In a home, I have pictures, TV, Computers, lamps, knick-knacks, pencils, scissors, clocks, ceiling fan blades, kitchen knives, cast iron skillets...

Guns are fine and dandy, just too much focus on guns and ammo will blind one to other useful tools, and preventative measures.


A BG will have a total baffled look, when his handgun will not work, *someone* used a pair of cutters and cut the hammer mounted firing pin.

A Sheriff Deputy will have to use his Exact Duplicate Glock, when I shot his Duty Glock, and since Glocks hate me, the gun broke.

Two City Police will gasp in horror, as one gun only fired once, the other only twice, in getting ready for re-Quals. Both issue guns were HKs

No absolutes in life, the advantage I and folks like me have always had is - we knew we were disposable from a very young age.
Once that is accepted, one is more free to think Software Not Hardware.


A single mom and baby survived/stopped a serious threat with a single shot .410 - I gave her.

Drunk, doped up , abusive husband, into dope and 3 friends came to pay her a visit. Seems he did not appreciate the restraining order, nor the idea of her testifying against him.

Now he had given her a Glock 26, one of his "business guns", earlier in the relationship. Then the baby came, and on a visit, he disabled that gun.
He did not know about the .410 loaded with slugs.

Like I said, he come to visit her...and this was not a "nice visit", he made that clear with a Glock in one hand, and straight razor in another.
He was going to make sure nobody would ever want to have sex with her, and was going to make sure she had a messed up vagina and no breasts.


The Glock went "click" and she ran to cover and got that single shot .410.
All I will say is, that threat was stopped, 3 guys against one scared girl.

She has a new last name, uses a Non-Res FL CCW , Totes a Colt Detective Special and home shotgun is a 20 bore 311.

"Do you want the .410 back?" - she asked me
"Nope, I gave it to you, and when that kid gets bigger, I would be honored if you passed it forward. You know how to find me, and maybe, I can assist in that kid shooting it" - I replied.

Never turn away Lady Luck.
 
No way

In my book single shots are for sporting and training purposes only. If I was broke and had no guns, OK I'd use a cheap single shot. Otherwise, it's just volunteering to be at a disadvantage.

Could you defend yourself against multiple bad guys? Sure, if you are incredible and with a little luck. Could you defend yourself against them more easily with a pump or other repeater? You bet.

But that's just me.

I like the comment about giving your hired guard a single shot in case he joins the bad guys. That idea (along with handing out guns to friends) has some merit.
 
"Bad guys have friends too"

Maybe they aren't really all bad then

maybe they are just misunderstood
 
IMO, the only thing a single shot is good for in an HD role is for "saving that last one for yourself".

Otherwise, youhould plan on having the best weapon available to you. Don't settile for a single shot if you can get a pump for 50 bux more. Or go a pawn shop and buy used. Single shots are for hunting, or something else, and for the amount of practice it would take to become proficient, you'd basically have a problem.

Now, if it's all you have, different story.... But first choice? Not!
 
Could you defend yourself against multiple bad guys?
Click to expand...

Software Not Hardware.

MY Lessons included : You may get cut, stabbed, maimed, blinded, and even die, but goddammit, do so at YOUR doings, and not of the BGs
 - Mentors, and I started hearing this about age 3.

See, if BGs kidnapped me, then I could be leveraged to get Adults to access things BGs wanted.

Now I shot MY revolver at age 3, a 1911 at age 6...and so on.

Now behind the doors were single shot shotguns, one was a .410, and 'kid sized' and I shot my first shotgun shells with primer only hulls.
I was being taught correct basic fundamentals.
Not only about not being a target, not getting into guns, and not doing a lot of things, plus how in the heck that shotgun worked.


Another Unwritten Rule is to have the Home Guns, set up for the smallest person that might have to use one.

"Small" is NOT derogatory, just a fact of Life.

A Bigger person can effectively use a smaller gun - a smaller person cannot always effectively use a larger one.

This "Rule" is applied and used by members on THR and other Forums, that have trained under Awerbuck, Cain, and others that teach defensive shotguns.
Applied and used by those that have killed in combat, on the streets as LEOs, worked in Prisons, and other "real friggin world snit" .

"Small" might mean an adult is getting over surgery, or a bad fall and sore and stove up.
Might be a person that suffered a stroke, and lost some ROU (range of use).

This Total friggin' BS about Ultimate Tack-Tickle High Exotic Round count with Fuzzy Dice and Curb Feelers that TEEM Walrus is just that BS!

BGs come in, shots fired, and threat stopped.
I did not say "killed" I said "Stopped".

Someone is going to dial a phone, perhaps administer first aid to a family member, or maybe themselves.

That 12# shotgun that cost too much god damed money, and TEEM Walrus uses *might* not be the best frigging tool to keep pointed at the BG(s) until help shows up.
Neighbors, Police, EMT, whomever.

Especially if YOU are down and it is a kid, teenager, grandparent, petite wife, maybe a wife pregnant, someone recovering from surgery, missing a hand, lower arm, ...etc.

Think Folks!

I am not going to be at your gunfight - Awerbuck

Best kept secrets, quite a few about life based on real life experiences.
One is, having guns that are accessible and useable by the smallest person that might have to use them.

If that happens to be a single shot shotgun, then do not play into the "Gotta-haves BS" - get one.
Learn it, know it like a body part, and have fun with it too.


Fact is, you are going to die someday.
I do not care how much ammo you have, how kewled up a gun(s) you have, how well you eat, exercise, don't smoke, drink chase guys/gals, get laid, don't get laid, got kids/don't have kids, anything!

So since I am not going to be at your gunfight, nor I doubt anyone else on this forum is, I would suggest YOU investigate and verify for YOU what works for YOU and be as one with it.


I have respect for many, some are known trainers, some are private, some are just "folks" - when it comes to gunfights, surviving and all.


Then again there are some folks I have zero respect for and would be the last persons I would want watching my six, and for sure "suggesting" any damn thing to do with guns, ammo, shooting or anything.
Some are Gun Schools, some are instructors, some are students and MY contention is, these folks need each other in the circle jerk of getting off.


ME, I would rather have someone that grew up shooting and is one with the single shot, and say a Model 10 watching my six, than someone that "just got into guns" took a few classes and espouses "knowledge" with kewl guns.


Lee Lapin's wife ; I'll take her with a single shot shotgun and a K frame over many over this forum to watch my six.
She has more training in her little finger than many would ever hope to learn.

Thank goodness folks like her teach women to shoot!
 
As others have said here, a single shot is better than nothing. With practice it can be better than that repeater being implemented in unskilled hands. The point is to shoot the thing until you are very good with it and it feels natural in your hands, then you will know what it will (or will not) do in your hands.

The manual of arms is so simple, all that is missing is practice.

Now, given extra $$$ there are better options but without the cash one can be very capable with minimal hardware, given enough practice.

YMMV,


gp911
 
SM, your going a little over the top here buddy, might want to step of the soapbox.. it is getting a little incoherant. Nobody that I have seen here is telling anyone to go get the super tacticool whiz bang auto shotgun. All anyone is saying is given the choice there are many better NORMAL shotgun options than a single shot. The guy already owns one.
 
I get the Software argument but Software works better with better hardware. Sure you can defend yourself with a pair of chopsticks but wouldn't it be better to have an M4gery. I just don't see why you would limit yourself to one shot. It's just not intelligent or tactically sensible. If a single shot is all you have sure but for pete's sake their are some pretty cheap pumps out there and semi autos as well. One shot for multiple assailants I'll pass. If the single shot logic espoused here by some of the Software crowd is true then why not just go Black Powder.
 
Well, I only own one shotgun (A H&R handi-rifle, with both smoothbore and slug 20 gauge barrels). I don't like (and am not as good at) shooting shotguns as I am with rifles, so I'd rather put my money into rifles. In a home defense situation, I would hand my girlfriend the single-shot, put her into a tucked away corner, and engage at the top of the stairs with a lever-action rifle.

A single-shot is so easy to use, has essentially no parts to screw up, and packs just as much wallop per shot as anything else.

Josh
 
I'd rather have a simple, no-frills pump for HD. I can keep it loaded with an empty chamber, and it has been VERY reliable.

Single-shots can work, are light and simple, but I like them for other things. One of their great strengths is that they can be taken down and stored/transported compactly (also true for doubles, however).

I respect the choices of others, and I hope they never need to fire a shot in anger. I'll stay with what works for me: a 12 ga. pump.

I keep meaning to order a .45ACP barrel from MCA Sports to use in my single. It should be a lot of fun, and .45ACP pressures are low with light target rounds. Great for plinking and can be used for small game in singles with rifle sights installed.

All my best,
Dirty Bob
 
sounds to me like there are words of wisdom in what SM is saying here,,,,maybe you should all reread what he has said

simple is good,,,, practice with simple tools make the work easier

as for the single shot shotgun,, i would rather have someone watching my pack and back that grew up with guns than many of the wanabe gunners with all the tacticool goowchy go faster attachments

yes i have 870s and 1100s,,,,,and several doubles,, and some singles

i am going to pick up which ever one i come to first when needed,,,,or like has been said maybe just a good old hammer will get the job done

but at the end of the day your brain must be engaged for any of the tools to work,,,,that is the tool that must be SHARP

my .02 YMMV

ocharry
 
45Guy,

If you have an 870, don't be deluded into thinking a single shot shotgun is going to be as efficient for defense. It's not. If you have something else or can afford something else - use it.

Romantic notions of "usin' the ol' scattergun that gramps used to run off that prowler in the yard..." is not going to be very comforting if you have to use it and need another shot - under stress and fear. Anecdotal stories of how someone might have used a single shot to scare somebody off doesn't mean a single shot is the best tool for the job. It's easier to miss with a shotgun than you think.

I'm sure Louis Awerbuck could outshoot most of us with a single shot, but then... I'm not going to intentionally handicap myself with a single shot, just because someone else could demonstrate a proof-of-concept. It would be a disservice to recommend that.

I've seen Bob Munden pop balloons with a Single Action Army revolver faster than I can pop balloons with an auto pistol, but I wouldn't extrapolate that to mean I should get a SA Army revolver for defense.

Yeah, I would pick Dave McCracken or Louis Awerbuck with a single shot over an amateur with a pump to help me out with an intruder if I had that choice. BUT - since neither one lives in my house, I'll utilize what gives me all the advantage I can reasonably choose. And that ain't a single shot. Why deliberately handicap yourself and endanger your family?

It's better to be realistic about it than to fantasize. Use an 870. And practice.
 
Bad guys have friends too.

pax
Click to expand...

+1

recommended to get another 870 for your girlfriend( get a 20 gauge if the recoil of the 12 gauge is too much for her). ammo recommendation is '00' buckshot. :)

You can use the single shot shotgun to train up new shooters. :)
 
I'm just attempting to get folks to Think and not get all caught up in Equipment.

Some folks Cannot use some equipment, like physically limited folks without a hand, weak side arm below the elbow, and others as I have assisted with.

Best Kept Secret- 20 ga semi auto, such as 1100, Beretta 303 or Win 1400.

Repetition becomes habit, habit becomes faith.

In assisting new shooters, from kids to geriatrics, once the gun fit and correct basic fundamentals are learned, these are repeated.

Depends on Student, still every night, they correctly mount to face a shotgun.
This also builds up stamina.

I have started kids, with a single shot shotgun doing 5 repetitions a night, with an adult assisting.
Kids get bigger, and transition to 28 gauge semis, 20 ga, 12, whatever - and are better shooters.
Folks do 25 repetitions a night - or more.


It may be an adult, recovering from detached retina, neck, back, hip, knee, whatever surgery.
That single shot shotgun, "can" and has become part of Physical Therapy to get back in shape.


In the real world folks get hurt, sick, injured.
Doctor's Orders on limited Recoil.

Detach a Retina, neck/back surgery and shoot that repeating 12 bore, and you may end up blind, or paralyzed.

I am responsible, and I will NOT suggest a person do Recoil when injuries occur and Doctor's Orders say no.

I have too many times over too many years, with Doctor's and Physical Therapists OKs, set up a person with a 1100 in .410, a single/double barrel .410, a .22 rim-fire handgun, Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22

Some of these folks were Competitive Shooters, LEOs, Military, and had lots of trigger time with all sorts of guns.

Life happens, and one would be wise to think about breaking matters down to the most simple, in the event a life situation happened to them - or family member.

If that "simple" means a single shot shotgun is the best you can do, or restricted to, due to Doctor's orders, then it is a lot better to have and not need, than to need and not have.
 
Single-shot shotguns are good for a lot of things, Home/Self defense among them. Good trainer guns, getting the fox out of the hen-house, etc. Propped up in the kitchen corner by the back door and a box-o-shells on the counter......

Not my first choice, but if it is what you have on hand, well...Run Whatcha Brung.

I was a teen growing up in Memphis, TN after the murder of Dr. M. L. King. Only weapon at home was "Pops" old Savage/Stevens Model 94B, a single-shot 16-Ga, with that light synthetic "Tenite" stock set. Recoil on that thing was ferocious with buckshot. "Pops" (grandfather) had shown me how to carry an extra shell in the 'non-trigger' hand, and how to break open & throw a fresh shell into the chamber. I wasn't nearly as fast or smooth as "Pops", but I could do it.

Didn't need it, but it was comforting to have it handy.

Oldest brother now has "Pops" shotgun, so I have updated my HomeLand Security shotgun to a Maverick 88 pump. But if only a "once-barreled" shotgun is what I had, wouldn't worry about that if it had to be pressed into service.
 
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Single shot shotgun=Farmer's Friend.

FWIW, Clint Smith, the Director of Thunder Ranch, keeps a single shot 20 gauge with a butt cuff from Milt Sparks as one of his HD guns. Clint acknowledges this on his shotgun tape so I am not telling tales out of school.

Weapons do not give one skill; education and practice do this.
 
quick question, if you do have a pump, how many shells should you put in it? I only ask because my dad always told me not to leave springs under tension for that long. Something like a hd shotgun might sit for a long time, or do you unload and load it every day?
 
Cute is

A 4 year old with her single shot "shotgun".

Took a kids sized one pc stock off a old .22 rifle, glued the cracked stock, and for a barrel use PVC pipe.
"Tigger" guard with a "tigger".

She has this mat with correct foot positions drawn , she puts her feet into/onto.
She goes over 4 rules, has her Eyes and Ears, and with adults supervising, correctly mounts her gun to her face, sometimes swinging through a target.

When her mom is doing her repetitions, daughter is watching, intently, and will remind mom to crack that weak knee, or keep that finger straight, or not raise her head or...

I know from experience, that 4 year old will be ready to shoot a real shotgun her size, and do so correctly, and these lessons will last her a lifetime.

Too many shooter done "growed up" on me, to prove this method.
 
Missing the point here. If you want to run a single shot break action gun, then go for it. I have asingl;e shot, then I pump, and I have another single shot. I repeat until magazine is empty, or I get a chance to reload on the fly, which is another great reason to love the shotty.

For what it's worth, if I don't have a followup shot, and can't engage fast enough, I'd probably transition to either the sidearm, or a blade. If you think a shotty makes a glorious mess of things, try a machete.
 
45Guy's question was
Who keeps a single-shot shotgun for HD? How do you store it? What ammo do you use?
Click to expand...

Answers so far seem to run along two lines: those that do or have done so, and those who haven't and won't.

Methinks that the operative dynamic is that "you have to dance with the one what brung you."

If that happens to be a SS and you are comfortable with it, then get out on the dance floor. If you are not so sure, then perhaps you need find some one else to go to the dance with.

Either way, I think most agree that you need make sure you can dance before you go.
 
For someone with a lot of trigger time on a particular gun, that gun may be a better choice for HD than something "better". sm, Clint Smith, Dave McCracken and others could probably do very, very well with a single.

I'm thinking about turning my "Sears" single into a travel/trunk gun, with a slightly shorter barrel (maybe 24-26"), homemade rifle sights, recoil pad, sling swivel studs, and several ounces of lead in the stock. If I wind up carrying and using it more and more (because I have it with me), I might start looking at it as a more viable alternative to my 1200, at least when on the road. It does feel very good and lively in the hands, and it seems to point well. It's a recent acquisition, however, and before any changes are made, I plan to slay a number of clay disks with it.

I like my single a lot, but at this moment, I don't see it as a viable HD tool for me, unless there was no other choice.

Thanks for an informative thread,
Dirty Bob
 
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