six o'clock hold?

[darkhelmet]

there's a thread elsewhere by someone who finds he's hitting low. he describes a six o'clock hold. his glock is sighted for what others are calling a "combat hold".

i don't know proper terminology, but the sights are set so that the top of the sight blades should lie on the equator of the bull.

aren't sights set for a six o'clock hold inherently limited to known distance and known circumference of bull? in other words, at ten yards, i can't expect the same result with this hold using a five inch bull and a ten inch bull.

the advantage of the other sight setting ("combat hold?") is that you are always aiming at dead center no matter what the distance and no matter what the size of the bull.

at "combat distances", against an actual foe, either would yield a COM hit. but if you're going for precision, the six o'clock hold requires judgement or fore knowledge about the distance and size of the target. the other hold doesn't.

enlighten me o' THR. the six o'clock hold seems to be preferred by many. but i can't see why.

 

[bigfatdave]

aren't sights set for a six o'clock hold inherently limited to known distance and known circumference of bull?

yes

 

[bhk]

The six o'clock hold has been traditionally prefered by bulleye shooters because in give a sharper and more accurate sighing picture (black bull sitting sharply on a black, squared front blade). This works well for target shooting because target guns have adjustable sights making tuning for distance and bull diameter easy.

Defensive and hunting guns are generally best sighted for a center hold. Informal target shooters get to pick what works best for them.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If your handgun is correctly sighted for a 6 o'clock hold or a "combat hold" you will make the same hits is you do your job. If using the same ammo that was used to sight in the only way you will shoot low is over distance because of bullet drop. That bullet drop will be the same no matter which method is used to sight the gun. (again, if correctly sighted in with the same ammo)

 

[RobertA]

No - if you re-read both the first and second posts, you'll see where shooting at a different size bullseye would shift your point of impact using a 6 o'clock hold. Being dead on with a 5" bull would make you 5" low on a 10" bull at the same range.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Being dead on with a 5" bull would make you 5" low on a 10" bull at the same range.

You'd be 2 1/2 inches low on the 10 inch bull.

Being dead on a 5" bull means your bullet impacts 2 1/2 inches from the top of the front sight. So on a 10 inch bull (with a 5 inch radius), you will shoot 2 /12 inches from the top of the front sight, or 2 1/2 inches below the center.

 

[AK103K]

aren't sights set for a six o'clock hold inherently limited to known distance and known circumference of bull? in other words, at ten yards, i can't expect the same result with this hold using a five inch bull and a ten inch bull.

Thats pretty much it. If the sights are regulated to hit center on a 5" bull with a 6 o'clock hold, they will hit 2.5" low with a 10" bull at the same range with the same hold.

If the sights are regulated for a "center" hold, or POA/POI, then it wouldnt matter. The bullets would go where the sights looked.

I think this is where the "target" shooters and the "practical" shooters get things somewhat mixed up when trying to discuss things. Target shooters are basing things on known distances with guns zeroed to specific sized aiming points with zeros "adjusted" to those targets. The practical shooters tend to zero POA/POI and hold on.

With my Glocks and SIG's (and most others) with three dot sights, the sights appear to be regulated to the dot, not the top of the blade, or thats how they seem to work for me. If I hold "on" with the top of the blade, the rounds will print low. If I put the center dot where I want the bullet to go, thats where they go. If I use a 6 o clock hold on a 5" target using the blade, the group will be at 6 o clock, just below the bull.

At this point, with most of my handguns, I dont even see a traditional sight picture when the gun is presented. I see the dots first and have to shift focus to get the traditional sight picture. I just put the center dot where I want the bullet to go, and thats where it goes. "More or less".

 

[bhk]

I think the OP point about a six-o'clock hold infers that such a hold hits dead center in the bullseye. If this is what he is implying then, yes, bull diameter and distance do make a difference. Target guns are aimed with a 6 o'clock hold and the sights adjusted so the bullets hit dead center in the ten ring.