sizer die for 9mm & 45acp, is it needed?

[Madmax]

I am a bit confused as to sizer dies for pistol ammo, and if it is needed.

Some die sets have it in the set like the Lee deluxe. And Some don't like the RCBS carbide sets. Is sizing something that most me done for auto's so the crimp is tight to the projectile? Or is this step optional? Why do some sets not have a sizer die?

Thanks!

 

[rcmodel]

All 3-die sets include a sizing die, a expanding / powder through die, and a seating & crimping die.

The forth die you are refering to is Lee's FCD or Factory Crimp Die, not a sizing die.

All 3-die sets will crimp in the seating die perfectly fine.

And thats all you really need.

rc

 

[Madmax]

OK thank you, what is the 4th die for in the Lee set?

 

[rcmodel]

It's for what I just said it is for in post #2.

It applies a "factory crimp" over and beyond what the seating die crimps.

It also post-sizes the loaded round, and that can cause problems when loading lead bullets which are larger diameter then jacketed bullets..

rc

 

[Madmax]

Sorry, I just got a bit confused. So the forth die is a "factory" crimp. I think I get it.

 

[pcad2]

The factory crimp die isnt necessary as long as you have your bullet seat/crimp die set right.

That said I use the factory crimper on my 45 cartridges because it seems to improve feeding in my 1911's with lead bullets. Especially on semi wad cutters.

I used it for the post sizing aspect, not to add crimp so much, i lightly crimp my 45 rounds.

 

[ranger335v]

"Or is this (resizing) step optional?"

Sizing is only helpful if you don't want your bullets to fall out!

 

[trixter]

When working with straight walled pistol cases, ie.45ACP, the powder die flares the case mouth ( if you set it to ), and allows the bullet to seat easily with no boolit shaving, the seating die does not, if set not to, straighten the case wall 100% (take out all of the flaring), that is where the #4 die; FACTORY CRIMP DIE comes into play it will bring the case back to factory dimensions, so that it will seat properly in the chamber. However having said all that, if you desire you can set the seating die to do the crimping also. It is just trickier (I know I am going to get slammed for this) to get the adjustment perfect.

 

[Walkalong]

the #4 die; FACTORY CRIMP DIE comes into play it will bring the case back to factory dimensions, so that it will seat properly in the chamber.

Which isn't needed 99% of the time, assuming properly sized cases, properly flared case mouths, properly seated bullets, and a proper "crimp" to remove the flare and maybe .001 more.

 

[gamestalker]

I think it would be a really good idea for you to watch a video about reloading. Resizing brass, any brass is an absolute and necessary step. Be it neck sizing for bottle neck cases (rifle brass that has shoulders), or straight walled cases such as handgun cartridges, auto loading (45 ACP type) or revolver brass (38 spcl. type), all have to be resized. And all die sets come with a resizing die.

As for crimping, you don't need to crimp most bottle neck cases. After resizing the brass will have all the neck tension necessary to hold the bullet firmly. There are a couple of exceptions though, tublular magazines and some auto loading rifles may need a crimp to prevent bullet set back.

Auto loading brass, such as 45 ACP, utilizes a taper crimp which is an integral part of the setaing die, and should only be crimped to the point any belling of the case mouth is removed. These type cases don't use a crimp for neck tension, and over crimping will cause reduced neck tension, deformed bullets, buckled cases, and excessive head space.

Revolver type brass, such as 38 spcl. utilizes a roll crimp which is also an integral part of the seating die. These cases need to have a firm roll crimp into the canelure of the bullet. Although it important to use a good firm crimp on these cases, over crimping will buckle cases. It is also necessary, in my opinion and especially for someone new to reloading, to keep these type case trimmed to equal lenghtes within SAAMI spec. so your cirmps will be consistent.

GS

 

[1SOW]

Is sizing something that most me done for auto's so the crimp is tight to the projectile?

Sizing is a critical step in all straight wall semi-auto ammunition. Sizing is what holds the bullet firmly in the case. It also makes an over-large 'un'-sized case able to fit into the pistol chamber properly.

After the case is sized, some bullets won't easily fit into the case mouth so the seating die can press it in. To fix that, the case-mouth can be flared slightly (by the powder die) so the bullet will just barely sit in this 'flare' so the seating die can push it in.

After the bullet is seated, this "flared case-mouth" has to be closed back snug around the seated bullet. THIS is called a "TAPER CRIMP".

All a taper crimp does is take out the flare that the powder die put in. (*It doesn't "hold" the bullet. It just returns the case to a size that fits easily into the chamber.

Hope this makes sense.


Re the LEE FCD: Some reloaders like to do the taper crimp as a separate step from the other dies. The FCD can be used to Taper Crimp in a separate die.
SO, you can seat the bullet and taper crimp with the same die, OR you can seat the bullet and then Taper Crimp on the FCD

 

[BYJO4]

I suggest you get Lymans 49th reloading manual. You will find it interesting plus get all the basic knowledge you need for loading. It's best to have several manuals on your bench for cross reference. Good Luck, reloading is a great hobby.

 

[Madmax]

I do have the 48th edition that came with my loader. And I just got the ABC"s of reloading from the library. So lots or reading for me!

 

[Lost Sheep]

Two functions

Subtitle: Go to Lee Precision's web site and read the FAQs on the FCD.

The third die in a 3-die set has two functions. The Lee Factory Crimp Die also has two functions.

The third die in a 3-die set can seat and crimp in the same operation. But this means you are applying a crimp at the same time as the bullet is still being seated deeper. It is simpler in concept to seat the bullet first, then crimp in a separate operation. It is also easier to adjust the dies.

Seating and crimping in the same step is imminently doable and perfectly fine.

Some prefer to separate the functions. You can do this with a fourth die. The simplest way, though is to use the seat/crimp die twice (not practical if you are loading continuously but just fine if you load in batches). Seat with the seat/crimp die with the die body adjusted so no crimp is applied. Then crimp with the die body and the seating stem adjusted (or removed) so the bullet is not pushed deeper into the case as the crimp is applied.

The Lee Factory Crimp Die also has two functions. The first is to apply a crimp.

So what does Lee's Factory Crimp Die do as its second function? The FCD sizes the case again. This ensures that, no matter (pretty much) what has happened before, (out of round or oversized bullets for instance) the finished round will fit in any SAAMI-spec chamber.

This "post-crimp sizing" is useful sometimes, but sometimes creates problems of its own (loose case grip/tension on the bullet, for instance).

Many people virulently dislike the FCD because it is sometimes used to iron out or cover up sloppy loading practices. Some like it for its simpicity. Some knock the post-sizing ring out of the die. Some substitute a Redding or Hornady crimp die (or, as I hinted at earlier) obtain an extra seat-crimp die and remove the seating stem. (You may be able to find one cheap by buying a used die set that has missing parts or has a tool steel sizing die instead of carbide.)

Visit Lee Precision's Frequently Asked Questions and/or get a copy of Richard Lee's Modern Reloading for more information. Then, once you have all you need to know, you will know what you need to have on your bench.

Lost Sheep

 

[Hondo 60]

If you need videos there's a guy who calls himself the "ultimate reloader"
Check out his vids on youtube or on his own site .

They're well done & kinda on the professional side.

 

[oneounceload]

And Some don't like the RCBS carbide sets.

Of course they resize, that is what the carbide die is for

 

[Walkalong]

Some don't like the RCBS carbide sets

What's not to like about RCBS carbide die sets for pistol calibers? They are hard to beat in my book.

 

[Hondo 60]

I have a set of RCBS dies - 38/357.
I don't think they do anything that Lee dies don't do, other than cost almost twice as much.
The radius on the opening of the die may be a bit more, but that stops the die from resizing a couple extra mm on the bottom of the case.


That's just my opinion & my experience with dies.
Of course YMMV

To madmax - sounds like you need to read a reloading manual.
If you don't wanna buy one, check your local library.
Lyman's 49th Reloading Handbook is my favorite.
It has a GREAT how-to section that explains all of the reloading details.

 

[Madmax]

Would a Cartridge Gage be something that would be good to get for .45 and 9mm to know that the crimp is good?

 

[ranger335v]

"... good to get for .45 and 9mm to know that the crimp is good"

All you need a crimper on those rounds to do is reduce the mouth flare to the same diameter or a tad smaller than the body of the case, it ain't critical.