SKS -- worth it?

[StingRayRay]

I forgot to add that it doesn't hurt to have an original also.

 

[MCgunner]

There are aftermarket firing pin springs offered. I'd not worry about it with mil surp, but if you slam the bolt home on a commercial primer, you will notice a light dent in it. i've never had the slam fire exprience with either of mine, though.

As to getting one, when I got mine, I couldn't resist. The Norinco paratrooper carbine, new production, was 115 bucks, the rifle was Chinese surplus and $75. Both shoot fine. The trigger has lots of creep in the Paratrooper, sorta like shooting DA...more like a heavy Glock trigger. But, the rifle was one of the 1 of 10 that actually came with a crisp trigger. I do hear they can be fixed and there are smiths that will do the work, but you're already forking out 400 now days for one. Not much investment and you coulda had a ruger Mini 30. Why bother with the SKS? Was a great rifle at 75 bucks, though, LOL.

 

[MCgunner]

I did dress mine up. Aftermarket stocks were a must. Even with the 1" extension thing I bought for the issue stock, it was like shouldering a Daisy Red Rider. I rather like the Choate camo stock I put on my rifle. The carbine has a folder. It's fine for a range toy, not real practical afield, but then I have much better hunting rifles. Took the scope off the rifle, though, makes it a much better truck and knock about gun and, well, like I said, I have better hunting rifles. It has killed a couple of deer, though, one a nice 9 point with the irons on it. I also put a 5 round mag on the rifle, fits flush, easier to wrap a hand around when carrying in the field. I still have the 10 rounder which i can install for the zombie apocalypse I'm so SURE will come, eventually....

Oh, yeah, I shoot lefty. So, I put ambi safeties on both of these, not possible with an AK. AKs have REALLY sucky ergos, especially for a left hand shooter. SKSs are much more natural.

 

[Cee Zee]

I've seen the going price for many at 400 dollars for the Chinese and Yugo SKS rifles. They are almost as high as AK's.

I'd rather have one than an AK. They're generally better rifles. The only good thing about an AK is the detachable mags. Everything else is better on the SKS. I've had both. I still have the SKS. More accurate. More reliable. Cheaper. Why would anyone buy an AK? It would certainly be different if we could buy full auto weapons but we can't. That was the big advantage the AK had over the SKS in the eastern bloc military. If not for that there would have been no reason at all to switch to the AK.

BUT the price of an SKS is sometimes way too close to the price of a new AR. No way I'd buy an SKS over an AR. It wasn't so long ago that I bought a Yugo SKS for $250 and it was like new. It had never been used by anyone. It had only been tested. Those kind of buys are getting rare though. The stuff you find on the market now is generally a rifle that has been shot hard and treated worse. They are often so gummed up with residue that things don't work right. I've seen some where the bolt wouldn't even slide forward. Those are worth next to nothing IMO. But if you can find a Yugo still in cosmoline for $250 it's still a good deal. And there are more of those deals than people think. They're rare but they do exist. And it is possible to get bad condition examples as low as $200. And those aren't shot out models. They're just badly built models mostly at least I think that's what the deal is. I'm not sure exactly. Read for yourself.

https://www.classicfirearms.com/chicomsks-b?q=sks

 

[Gun Master]

AK or SKS ?

I'd rather have one than an AK. They're generally better rifles. The only good thing about an AK is the detachable mags. Everything else is better on the SKS. I've had both. I still have the SKS. More accurate. More reliable. Cheaper. Why would anyone buy an AK? It would certainly be different if we could buy full auto weapons but we can't. That was the big advantage the AK had over the SKS in the eastern bloc military. If not for that there would have been no reason at all to switch to the AK.

Well said, Cee Zee !

I haven't owned any fully automatic weapons, since I got rid of that Remington Nylon 66, that was slam firing 2 or 3 round bursts, accidently.

 

[Inebriated]

I'd rather have one than an AK. They're generally better rifles. The only good thing about an AK is the detachable mags. Everything else is better on the SKS. I've had both. I still have the SKS. More accurate. More reliable. Cheaper. Why would anyone buy an AK? It would certainly be different if we could buy full auto weapons but we can't. That was the big advantage the AK had over the SKS in the eastern bloc military. If not for that there would have been no reason at all to switch to the AK.

AK is lighter, more compact, has better ergonomics for me, simpler, and in my experience, is just a less problematic rifle. And lest we forget, I can buy a brand new AK today. I'm stuck to a surplus if I want an SKS.

I have, and enjoy, a Russian SKS that is problem free, but you couldn't pay me to have only it over my AK's, or any good AR for that matter. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one who thinks an SKS is junk if it costs more than $90 or whatever other nonsense has been spewed about their value, but I would never opt for an SKS over any AK or AR.

 

[Gun Master]

AK or SKS ?

To each his (or her) owner .

 

[mokin]

I like mine. I picked it up back in the 90s when they were cheap though. I'll agree that the trigger isn't great but it's accurate enough and only had one instance when it slam-fired. Two pops instead of one-part way through a magazine and it didn't dump it.

I'll admit though, I'd really think hard about the purchase for what they go for now.

 

[Cee Zee]

And lest we forget, I can buy a brand new AK today. I'm stuck to a surplus if I want an SKS.

That's certainly a consideration now but given a milsurp SKS the way they came to the US originally I'd take the SKS every time. I don't like the ergonomics of the AK at all. Forget trying to shoot over a short wall or a rock or whatever. I tend to think about things like washing machines to hide behind in the house. There wasn't much difference in weight between my SKS and the AK I had and the AK was absolutely less reliable. That may not always be true but I've seen problems with AK's pretty regular actually. I've seen very few with un-bubba'ed SKS rifles.

I think most people that have owned both recognize that the SKS is more accurate. To me that's the real clincher. That and the ergonomics. There isn't a lot of difference between them though. I could see people going the other way but I've seen a lot of people like me who would pick the SKS.

 

[Inebriated]

I don't like the ergonomics of the AK at all. Forget trying to shoot over a short wall or a rock or whatever.

Ergonomics certainly are 100% personal. Though I don't see the problem shooting over a short wall or a rock. What do you mean?

There wasn't much difference in weight between my SKS and the AK I had

With a box stock SGL-21 and an empty 10 round mag, it's almost exactly a pound lighter than the Russian SKs. The bayonet and stock contribute to the weight difference in the SKS.

and the AK was absolutely less reliable. That may not always be true but I've seen problems with AK's pretty regular actually. I've seen very few with un-bubba'ed SKS rifles.

I've seen very few problems with AK's that are built the way they're supposed to be. Realize that SKS's come in from countries pretty much exactly as they were produced for that country. The majority of AK's on the market today came in as parts that were fitted together, often times rather poorly. I think reliability is a wash when speaking of two properly-built examples of each. Again though, that's been my experience. Experiences differ.

I think most people that have owned both recognize that the SKS is more accurate. To me that's the real clincher.

I wouldn't dispute that, but I've never bench rested my SKS to see... I have no problems doing what I need to do with an AK out to 300 yards with a red dot, so if my SKS is more accurate, then that's nice, but I won't see much of a practical difference. All of my AK's certainly have triggers that lend themselves to better precision though, and especially with ALG Defense making one soon, the trigger game goes to the AK.

There isn't a lot of difference between them though. I could see people going the other way but I've seen a lot of people like me who would pick the SKS.

No real right or wrong, just preferences... I would rather have both and bicker about them than not.

 

[Swampman]

Originally posted by :Sunray
Not an issue. Slam fires are not caused by rifles. They're caused by improperly loaded ammo. Usually high primers.

I hate to go on the record as agreeing with anything Cee Zee says, but he's right on this one (even if he does think oil changes cost over $300).

SKS firing pins are susceptible to sticking in the forward position and have caused issues with slamfires and "runaway" full auto fire. Basically the weapon starts firing when the bolt is run forward and usually doesn't stop till the mag empties. Another way to look at is to imagine a machine gun that's designed to fire from an open bolt, except in this case, it doesn't stop when you release the trigger because the trigger isn't even involved (and there's no ammo feed belt to twist and jam the gun to make it stop firing like on a runaway M-60 ).

You're actually correct when you say slamfires aren't caused by the gun, they're generally not. The problems with the SKS are usually caused by improper cleaning and lubrication. The fact that a lot of these weapons were imported directly into the US or Canada from arsenals where they'd been packed with various local versions of cosmoline makes the problem much worse.
Over the years this preservative grease tends to dry up and act more like glue than a lubricant. Anyone that takes delivery of a rifle packed with this stuff needs to do a serious cleaning, paying particular attention to the bolt and firing pin to ensure that everything is moving freely as designed.

Its true that high (or soft) primers can lead to slamfires, but that's not the whole story where the SKS is concerned.

@ Cee Zee
Have you ever considered just making your point and leaving it at that?
Honestly, nobody CARES about your habits regarding vehicle acquisition and maintenance.

Originally posted by: @ Cee Zee
I bought a lot of them that people thought were worn out because they had 100,000 miles on them. I bought them for $300 or so and drove them 75,000 miles rarely if ever doing any maintennce like oil changes.

Besides, sternly lecturing people about gun safety while bragging about how smart you are for buying cars that other people consider worn out, and then DRIVING THEM FOR ANOTHER 75,000 MILES WITH LITTLE OR NO MAINTENANCE (not even an oil change ), doesn't exactly enhance your image as a reputable source of information on maintenance OR safety matters.



Keep an SKS reasonably clean, don't use lubes that gum up the firing pin and chances are you'll be fine.

 

[Bushpilot]

Originally Posted by Cee Zee
the SKS can be worse because of the shape of the firing pin and the shape of the channel. It gets narrow toward the end and if something (like a piece of a popped primer) gets pushed back in that channel it can bend the pin and jam it against the side of the channel.

Firing pins of any shape can get stuck protruding from the bolt face if bent, dirty, rusty or broken, even if they aren't free floating, though much less likely. I've seen firing pins that weren't free floating get stuck protruding from the bolt face because there were broken or the firing pin return spring was broken, actually jamming the pin forward. When chambering a round in any gun basic safety practices should be exercised as always. This along with keeping your rifle well maintained and the knowledge of what is possible should prevent any serious issues. With this in mind it's really close to being a non issue. Once again, as I said before, there are a lot of guns of all types out there with free floating firing pins.

As far as the tapered shape of the SKS firing pin making it some how unique or worse, it really isn't. Slam fires just seem to occur a little more often in SKSs because they are often shot a great deal with out ever cleaning and still filled with old, sticky, dried up cosmoline.

 

[joem1945]

I have one chicom and five yugo's from the 90's. One of them has the soldiers note book but I can't read it but it's neat to have it anyway. At auction I bought a large case of 7.62x39 chicom ammo. Absolutly corrosive so I bought a $90.00 beat one to fire that ammo. At the end of the case there were some malfunctions (stove pipes). I replaces the gas regulater and it runs fine now.

 

[Slamfire]

Start on this web page.

Then maybe watch this video.

Or this video.

And here's Murray's famous page on the subject.

And there's this web page which has a video.

Google lists 112,000 results on the subject. I think these people can't all be wrong. Besides I've seen this issue myself. I've seen bent firing pins and I've seen guns fired so many times the bolt got completely gunked up to the point I was surprised it would fire at all. But it did.

Friend you are giving out dangerous advice.

Sunray actually knows better about mil spec primers, for at least a decade he and a trio of other CCI haters have been disparaging CCI, CCI primers at Culver’s (www.jouster.com) To date CCI is the only US manufacturer offering its mil spec primer line to the market and Sunray, Hugh Uno, and John Kepler denied slamfires happened, denied there was anything different about mil spec primers, and generally spread hate towards CCI. For over a decade these CCI haters have been doing all they could to discourage people from using CCI #34’s, #41’s . Nothing has changed now that Tula has introduced their mil spec primers other than they don’t mention Tula. There is absolutely nothing that has been said about mil spec primers that Sunray, (AKA T. O’Heir on the Firing Line) has not already heard.

2014 Post

M1 Carbine Primers: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=758161&highlight=M1+Carbine+primers

This is a 2007 Post:

Difference between CCI#34 7.62 military primers and CCI#200 Large Rifle This Primers?

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273635

"...CCI #34 7.62 military primers..." They're a marketing gimmick. They are a magnum primer though. You don't need magnum primers for ANY battle rifle. Magnum primers burn a bit hotter for a bit longer than regular primers. They're made to light hard to ignite powders and for extreme cold weather shooting. Lots and lots and lots of ammo was loaded for every .308/7.62NATO and .30-06 milsurp rifle ever made with no fuss using regular large rifle primers long before there was such a thing as a CCI #34 or #41.
"...what is the advantage of using..." CCI gets a bit more of your money.
"...Volatile primers cause slam fires..." A what? Primers don't cause slam fires. Nor does ANY rifle. Improperly loaded ammo causes slam fires.

What you have here is an individual who is actively promoting an idea, to hurt a third party, CCI, which he knows is dangerous and likely to cause hurt to the individual he is giving the advice. He probably enjoys the fuss he creates, laughs at all the effort you put debunking, and I suspect, if you get hurt following his advice, it is a conformation on just how clever he is, by manipulating you to do something harmful to yourself.

 

[Swampman]

Originally posted by: bainter1212
I have also had good luck, accuracy-wise, with making sure that the action fits tight to the stock. The trigger group should take a lot of pressure to seat. I have used cardboard shims to good effect at the front of the stock where it mates with the action. The trigger group should be hard to seat and the recoil lug should be tight against it's seat as well.

I've had good luck with shims too, although one of my 59/66's was so bad about sliding around in the stock that a real bedding job was needed before it'd shoot anything approaching a group.

I learned a pretty good trick about shimming trigger groups from a Garand guru a few years back.

Instead of cardboard, use stock cut from those flexible refrigerator magnets. Its got a lot of advantages.

It'll stick to the steel parts of your trigger group, so you're less likely to lose the shims when disassembling or cleaning your weapon.

The plastic won't hold water and contribute to rusting like cardboard can.

They don't compress near as easily as cardboard, so they last a lot longer.

Also, just like cardboard, you can find magnets in various thicknesses and they're just as easy to cut into whatever shape you need.

 

[Cee Zee]

Though I don't see the problem shooting over a short wall or a rock. What do you mean?

Only that the mags protrude a lot from the bottom of the AK unless you happen to have a 5 round mag handy. There are some around but most people have nothing but 30 round mags. The SKS is made to only have the mag protrude a couple of inches.

As far as the tapered shape of the SKS firing pin making it some how unique or worse, it really isn't.

I'm certainly not an expert but I've read the opinions of quite a few actual experts that disagree with your point here. I can't vouch for their words but I can point you to where I've seen that. For example the Murray firing pin has a pin shaped head instead of the conical shape of the standard SKS firing pin. That conical shaped pin and the conical shape of the channel is what is said to be the problem. But it's not like I've gone out and tested a few hundred models against other designs. I could be wrong but I'm not alone in being that way in this case.

Here's a quote from Massad Ayoob that shows I'm not the only one that says this about the shape of the SKS firing pin:

"One downside of the SKS is found in the area of safety. The firing pin tapers somewhat in its channel, and when the gun gets dirty or old lubricant “coagulates,” it can get stuck in the forward position. This can result in “slamfires” in which the rifle goes off when the bolt is dropped on the first live cartridge loaded in, and it can also cause the gun to “go full automatic.”

 

[BigBL87]

For me, when I went to buy a semi auto rifle I didn't think the SKS was worth it. That being said, I would like an SKS eventually, but for me with the prices they are going for I might as well foot a little extra for an AK, or an AR for that matter. If an SKS was still under $200, I'd own one of them and not an AR15 right now, but the prices are jsu so inflated right now I couldn't do it.

 

[Cee Zee]

If you don't already own a good SKS there isn't a big chance you're going to find one soon anyway. Most of the stuff I see is completely wrecked. It's either bubba'ed so bad it can't be fixed or it's been shot without cleaning so much it won't cycle much less work the firing pin correctly. So it doesn't matter what the price is unless you get lucky and find a good one and that just isn't very likely.

Again I bought a pristine Yugo for $250 not that long ago and just a couple of months ago I saw them being sold for well under $300. The panic did almost nothing to the price of the SKS. It topped out during the previous panic. With the price or AR's down to less than $550 now it's just not smart to buy into an SKS or an AK. The AR is a far better platform. It's actually accurate like most modern rifles.

I will never let go of my SKS because compared to most it has a lot of life left on it. I've only fired maybe 10-12,000 rounds through it. Some have 10X that much through them. And mine is a true milsurp Norinco. Try finding one of those in really good shape. It just doesn't happen often where I live anyway. 5 years ago I still saw some that were clean but not for the last few years. Not at all. I see some Yugos in decent shape but there's that awful grenade launcher. If I had some grenades to launch I'd like that but I can't find any at Walmart.

The rifles are higher than they were in the 90's but at $250 they aren't really a lot more expensive because of inflation. $100 in 1992 is equal to $180 now. So $250 for a good model isn't that bad really. And the ammo is still being made cheap in the eastern world. I have plenty of it I'm sitting on. I don't need to invest in a new system. If I did I'd most certainly get an AR. But when I bought my SKS a good AR cost about $1000 compared to the $100 I paid plus the ammo was dirt cheap. And they aren't bad rifles. If they had just showed up on the market people wouldn't have a bit of trouble paying $350 for one. It's only because people know they were once much cheaper that they think the guns are cheap (they aren't) and that cheap means junk (which is just silly). Their range is limited when it comes to accuracy but at 150 yards they are plenty deadly.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I have 3 SKS rifles. Short answer: Yes, if you can get one for around $300 or less.

Long answer: They are good, reliable, accurate, fun rifles. Perhaps a "Jack-of-All-Trades, Master-of-None" kinda gun. However, if they are too pricey, you might as well get a VZ or AK rifle. They have alot of drawbacks, most guns do, but I love mine however I got them cheap. It's kinda like how I love my Mosin, if I dropped $600 for it, I wouldn't love it, but since it was dirt cheap, what's not to love?

 

[joem1945]

I had two slam fires with a SKS. When the rifle stove piped a empty it also stripped off another round and almost chambered it. The bolt was jammed tight. I put the safety on, finger NOT ON THE TRIGGER, got a plier a and jerked the stove pipe out and the rifle fired. It was pointed down range. I cleaned the rifle and when it happened again I retired it to wall hanger status. Replacing the gas valve eliminated the stove problem.

 

[TimSr]

I've got one i bought in the 80's that was Korean War era. It's a fun toy to play with. Not particularly great as hutning rifle but fun to play with. last year i decided to go out on a very cold day, about 15 degrees, and target shoot with a friend. Apparently it had a little bit of that old grease still in the firing pin, because on that day, when teh grease was cold, and turned to gum, she went into full auto slamfire mode. Scary, as I was not expecting it! In a slam fire situation, letting go of the trigger does not make it stop. It fired 4 and stopped, I manually emptied magazine, and put in two, tried it again, and same thing. At home I took it apart, cleaned the firing pin, and used Rem oil to leave a film to keep it from rusting. Has been fine ever since. They do sell a firing pin kit to prevent this.

Fun toy, but really has no useful purpose at today's prices other than backyard entertainment.

 

[Cee Zee]

but really has no useful purpose at today's prices other than backyard entertainment.

I can't say as I agree here. Granted there are better guns for almost everything but it is more than adequate as a HD weapon for people in rural areas (very rural) who need to worry about the occasional invasion of a gang of hoods. It happens. It's rare but it happens. When it does I will want something more than a handgun to resist. Even a shotgun has it's limitations if that gang has decided to set up 100 yards from your house and riddle it with bullets. I've lived in uber remote spots and you'd be surprised what can happen. It's been a very long time ago but there was an armed gang that camped out below my grandmother's house looking to kidnap my uncle. It didn't happen if that tells you anything. Grandpa sent grandma outside to tell the thugs they would have to go in the house to get my uncle and grandpa was there with a shotgun. Grandma stayed behind cover of course. That gang didn't like the idea of facing a crazed father with a shotgun. They knew at least one of them was likely not to come out alive. They thought that wasn't an acceptable risk I suppose.

 

[ldlfh7]

I would buy an SKS 20 years ago when my local pawn shop had crates full of them for 75$. But for the same price as a basic AR, I cannot see how anyone would choose the SKS but that is just me.

 

[Inebriated]

I'm not seeing the SKS's for the high prices lately. At least not selling... If you look around, you can find one for a good deal by today's standards.

I got the '51 Tula with all matching hardware and a force-matched stock for $350 about 8 months ago.

 

[tubeshooter]

SKS -- worth it?

Very subjective...

I still think they make a great starter/all-purpose rifle. Obviously they cost a lot more than they used to. But then again, so do .30-30s and 10-22s and lots of other rifles. I understand you used to be able to get a .357 lever for about $350 at one time, and didn't have to look for them nearly as hard.

They may not make a whole lot of sense to some enthusiasts, but different strokes for different folks. Some people would rather have a Mini-14 than an AR. Some people just don't dig 5.56 very much. And so on.

AR prices are very good RIGHT NOW, but they haven't always been and are not particularly guaranteed to be in the future.


I bought an SKS still slathered in cosmoline for $300 last year as a backup, and I was okay with that. I personally don't think I would go over $350, and I would expect excellent condition for that price. Some people "outgrow" them, but for many light-to-moderate enthusiasts it's all the rifle they'll need at a good entry level price. You can get less rifle for more $ fairly easily. And lastly, I totally agree that any potential or actual owner should be well aware of slamfires and the story behind them.