Slam-firing shotguns - a question

[mattw]

Just to clarify by slam fire I am refering to pump shotguns that will fire if the trigger is held down and the forearm is manipulated, as opposed to say, a current generation remington 870 which requires the trigger to be allowed to reset after forearm manipulation before the hammer will be released again resulting in firing.

The only currently manufactured pump shotgun that will do this that i know of is the norinco copy of the winchester 1897.

Does anyone else know of any shotguns that are made currently that can be slam-fired or any that can be safely modified to do so without affecting reliability?

 

[mjb]

I have an Ithaca 37 police shotgun that will do that. They are no longer being manufactured.

 

[mattw]

i thought they might, i thought about ithacas doing that and decided that it would not be good for the same reason why i've never liked the ithaca 37: all the shells empty and live enter and exit through the same port making it hard to fix or see any malfunctions. of course i could be wrong, i've never used an ithaca. it would be awesome if the winchester 1300 could do it, i've never seen one of those jam

 

[-C4-]

i thought they might, i thought about ithacas doing that and decided that it would not be good for the same reason why i've never liked the ithaca 37: all the shells empty and live enter and exit through the same port making it hard to fix or see any malfunctions. of course i could be wrong, i've never used an ithaca. it would be awesome if the winchester 1300 could do it, i've never seen one of those jam

Get an 1897. I own the "Freak Of Nature" and it is a ton of fun to shoot. The "Freak Of Nature" is the chrome plated 1897 with a pistol grip (pictures are floating around here).

-C4-

 

[TrapperReady]

mattw - No offense intended, but why do you want a gun which slam fires? I've got several guns (old Model 12s) which will, but I've never done it. Unless I was trying to set some sort of "most number of hand-tossed clay targets shot with a pump" record, I can't see the utility.

I would also think that you'd be increasing the chance for an out-of-battery detonation... which can have any number of undesirable consequences.

 

[mattw]

I can get back on target faster than i can shoot with my remington 870 so i think it would be very utilitarian to get a shotgun that i could slam-fire so that it could keep up with me. also its just alot of fun

how about this one though: modifying my remington 870 to slam fire. any ideas?

 

[pauli]

i've got a lot of ideas, but few of them are fit for the high road.

if you want something that slamfires, get something that does it by design.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I used to ride reserve for my small- town PD back in the 1970s. The entire arms room for the department consisted of two (2) Model 12 riot guns. I used to insist on carrying one every time I rode a shift, which got me a certain amount of good-natured heckling from the full- timers who didn't want to be bothered with dragging it along.

Until one of those rare times that something came along on a shift that made having a shotgun desireable, that is. I was legally concealed-carrying a J frame Smith then, I didn't mind the ribbing a bit and found the shotgun a comforting supplement to 5 rounds of .38 Special.

At any rate, one night when I wasn't riding there was a disturbance call to an illicit club (known there as a 'shot house' because they sold liquor by the drink without a license). There happened to be an on-duty Highway Patrol officer stopping by the station when the call came in, to visit with the one police officer who was on duty overnight (it was a SMALL town). Our officer grabbed one shotgun, the trooper grabbed the other and off they went.

Turned out the trooper was a believer in the pacifying effect of the sound of a shotgun racking. Problem was he wasn't real familiar with Model 12s. So when they burst through the door of the club to find a free-for-all in progress, the trooper racked his shotgun briskly.

With a finger on the trigger and the safety off...

Fortunately the muzzle was pointed mostly up, all that suffered was the ceiling- and their hearing. But, it gave the full-timers someone else to rag for the rest of the time I lived there. And it CERTAINLY ended the bar fight in a hurry. Didn't do much for the windows in the place though, there wasn't a one left whole when the occupants abandoned ship.

There are some down sides to shotguns that will slam-fire...

lpl/nc

 

[mattw]

I, unlike that guy, am getting a shotgun for the purpose of slam-fire and will not be making that mistake. Good story though,

 

[Fred Fuller]

But... will everyone who handles the gun know its capabilities? Therein lies a potential problem.

If you want a gun that is KNOWN to be capable of slam-firing, that's one thing. But I would discourage as strongly as possible attempting to modify one that wasn't made that way.

lpl/nc

 

[pezo]

bizzare

 

[1KPerDay]

I can get back on target faster than i can shoot with my remington 870 so i think it would be very utilitarian to get a shotgun that i could slam-fire so that it could keep up with me.

how about this one though: modifying my remington 870 to slam fire. any ideas?

Yeah... trade your 870 for an 1100.

 

[mattw]

But... will everyone who handles the gun know its capabilities? Therein lies a potential problem.

If you want a gun that is KNOWN to be capable of slam-firing, that's one thing. But I would discourage as strongly as possible attempting to modify one that wasn't made that way.

lpl/nc

that is true, but not a problem for me, i am the only one who uses my guns and if i handed something like that to someone, they would be told about it.


1kperday,

find me someone willing to make that trade and i'll do it

i think my problems are solved though.. i found a norinco 97t for 319.99 plus tax (7%) at a local shop

 

[sm]

*sigh*

 

[mattw]

what is that supposed to mean?

 

[TrapperReady]

mattw - What some of us are trying to tell you... politely... is that it's not a very good idea. It may seem cool, but when you have to buy a Chinese clone of something designed over 100 years ago in order to get that "feature", there may just be a valid reason.

As I stated earlier, slam fires can result in out of battery ignition of the cartridge. As Dave McCracken likes to remind us, shotguns and hand-grenades have similar operating pressures. A bolt which is not quite locked could cause injury to the shooter and bystanders alike.

At one time, Winchester Model 12s allowed for slam-firing. I have several and studiously AVOID firing them in that fashion. They were changed to a disconnector type for a reason.

There are any number of regular posters here who have incredible amounts of experience. Personally, I still consider myself a relative beginner with much of this... and I have been shooting between 5K and 10K shells per year for quite a while. I can run a pump as well as anyone I know and better than most... and I see absolutely no practical reason for intentionally slam-firing a gun.

You are, of course, free to do as you want.

 

[sm]

Difficult to interpret your intentions.

There is more to reponsible firearm ownership than firearms.

Nothing wrong with having fun...responsible fun.

Last time I went Brrrrrrrp!and 30 casings on the ground in the blink of an eye was with a Class III firearm. Never shot one like it before, even got some on target, had a grin, responsible grin.

Now I know folks that can shoot a regular pump gun faster than a semi AND hit the targets...moving targets.

I personally have run a Ithaca or Model 12 that slam fired on purpose to demonstrate safety and shoot targets, like flurries, and hit them. I have used these to take 6 doves with 3 shells. I was having fun taking doubles. Oh there was that side bet on whom could take their 15 bird limit of doves with the fewest shells.

On purpose, I removed the safety from some pump guns in competition. Legal , just as Lee Lapin alluded to, the RO,SO and squad were ALL informed. Same as a shooter MUST do when shooting Release Triggers.

I am NOT into, nor do I advocate folks buying skill and targets. Nor am I into folks being - or representing NOT being Responsible Firearm owners. Either by practice, or implied.

Understand I walked away from folks in my life, and many were / are Pro Gun folks. I refuse to go to some Public/ Private Ranges simply because of the folks I see shooting and the attitudes they have.

"Them" folks are NOT "My Kind". Not to mention they have a lot of damn gall breathing MY air while they give MY kind a bad reputation.

IF intentions are honorable - fine.
IF not then...

See I don't give one whit what folks think of me. Folks got a right to be wrong and I gotta right to be RIGHT.

Pretty simple in my book. I like simple.