Slant brake and SAR-1--questions.

[benEzra]

I have a Romanian SAR-1 with a bare muzzle. I'm just getting into IPSC/3-gun style shooting with this carbine (my first match was last week, had a blast) and need some schooling on 7.62x39mm slant brakes.

(1) How much do slant brakes really help with muzzle climb? Enough to be worth the trouble?

(2) Do they noticeably increase muzzle flash or concussion as viewed from the shooter's end?

(3) Where can I find a U.S.-made slant brake (to avoid 18 USC 922(r) problems) to fit a SAR-1?

(4) How much would it cost to have a gunsmith thread the muzzle to install it, and what do I need to know to make sure he gets it on straight?

I'd consider an AK-74 style brake, but don't really like the looks.

 

[nalioth]

I have a Romanian SAR-1 with a bare muzzle. I'm just getting into IPSC/3-gun style shooting with this carbine (my first match was last week, had a blast) and need some schooling on 7.62x39mm slant brakes.

(1) How much do slant brakes really help with muzzle climb? Enough to be worth the trouble?
They were designed for control during full automatic fire. They don't do much during semi auto shooting..
(2) Do they noticeably increase muzzle flash or concussion as viewed from the shooter's end?
Not really.
(3) Where can I find a U.S.-made slant brake (to avoid 18 USC 922(r) problems) to fit a SAR-1?
Copesdist, Global Trades, and many other vendors offer US made slant brakes.
(4) How much would it cost to have a gunsmith thread the muzzle to install it, and what do I need to know to make sure he gets it on straight?
Global Trades does it here in Houston for around $20. If you don't trust your gunsmith to do work, find another gunsmith..

Here's a recent story about what can happen, if your gunsmith isn't very good: http://www.akforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30348

On some of the AK forums, they rent barrel threading tools, so you can do it yourself. It's quite easy.

 

[benEzra]

Sounds like it's probably not worth the trouble, then.

Here's a recent story about what can happen, if your gunsmith isn't very good: http://www.akforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30348

Aaaaaaagh!

For those who didn't follow the link, Sir Idiot Gunsmith was installing a brazed-in pin to permanently attach a muzzle cap to make the rifle compliant with state law concerning muzzle threads, and accidentally drilled THROUGH THE BARREL.

It takes a special kind of non-skill to mess something up that badly...and I would NOT want to be along the axis of that pin if the rifle is fired.

 

[dstorm1911]

The only one that actually does any good is the AK74 style brake but once ya thread the muzzle or convert to accept HI Cap mags then ya gotta meet 922R regardless so....... might as well get it over with

 

[benEzra]

Mine's a SAR-1, so it's already set up for double column magazines and is 18 USC 922(r) compliant:

If you look closely, though, it lacks a bayonet lug and has a smooth muzzle with a target crown (not visible). That's because it is a 2002 model, imported during the Feinstein ban years, and muzzle threads or a bayonet lug would have given it two "evil features" and run it afoul of the ban.

Now that the ban has expired, it would be legal for me to thread the muzzle, and 18 USC 922(r) isn't a problem as long as I use a U.S. made compensator. I'm basically wondering if it's worth the trouble and the extra length.

I'm sure the AK-74 style brakes would work much better, but I don't want the extra length and muzzle blast. Honestly, it doesn't recoil much as it is (I run slower splits than the AR guys, but not that much slower), so if the slant brake is marginal, I'll probably forego it.

 

[Gewehr98]

I bought the muzzle pilot and die for my SAR-1.

I threaded it and installed a U.S. made slant brake. It just looked so naked out there, that I had to do something with it. A finishing touch, you might say...

 

[benEzra]

Gewehr98, is that the stock forend, or aftermarket? Looks fantastic.

I bought the muzzle pilot and die for my SAR-1.
I threaded it and installed a U.S. made slant brake. It just looked so naked out there, that I had to do something with it. A finishing touch, you might say...

How is it "timed," i.e. how do you set up the threads so the brake ends up right side up? Is there a jamnut or something?

 

[MudPuppy]

(1) How much do slant brakes really help with muzzle climb? Enough to be worth the trouble?
Not much that I can tell--probably more with full auto, but that's a guess.

(2) Do they noticeably increase muzzle flash or concussion as viewed from the shooter's end?
Not that I can tell.

(3) Where can I find a U.S.-made slant brake (to avoid 18 USC 922(r) problems) to fit a SAR-1?
http://dpharms.com/us-marked-14x1-lh-us-slant-breaks-p-82.html
http://www.copesdist.com/ak47.htm

(4) How much would it cost to have a gunsmith thread the muzzle to install it, and what do I need to know to make sure he gets it on straight?
Not sure, I'd WAG $50-$70 for the threading?? It's timed by adding a spring loaded detent pin.

My favorite is the '74 or Tantal sail brake style--that's the only one i've seen with a noticable affect on recoil. Seems to tame the flash a bit as well, but I do pretty much zero nighttime shooting, that too is more speculation.

Oh, do a search for ironwood designs. They do quality (ie, spendy) wood for fals, aks, 10/22s...good stuff though.

 

[Gewehr98]

I cheated.

My SAR-1's front sight tower has the recess for the plunger and spring, and the slant brake had the timing slot for it. When timed to properly use the detent plunger, the slant brake deflects the blast off to the top right as you're looking forwards through the sights. That means the original AK rifles must want to walk up and right during full-auto fire.

Since I'll never fire full-auto with this gun, I tried something different, borrowing a trick from my AR-15. I skipped the plunger and spring, and used the crush washer from a 14mm spark plug instead. That served as a peel washer to set the timing of the slant brake so it deflects the muzzle blast straight up. Even though it was a crush fit, I used a bit of red Loctite to make sure it didn't unscrew itself.

As for the furniture, it's wood from K-Var's Bulgarian walnut forend and handguard kit:

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16203&cat=251&page=2

Their varnish was a tad icky, so I simply stripped it, and refinished it with my standard military rifle technique of boiled linseed oil. An AK won't ever be considered pretty, but it looks better as it sits next to my nightstand at night, and feels nice in hand on range day. The K-Var wood pistol grip is larger than the original style plastic ones, too, without dominating the gun like those Tapco abominations.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

The Bulgarian fishgill brakes work pretty well, better than the slant brakes IMO. You can get them from K-Var.

 

[Ian]

Anyone have experience with the big honkin' Hungarian AMD brakes?

 

[geekWithA.45]

Riddle me this, batman, because I don't see the consistency.

On the one hand, we obsess with not scratching our muzzle crowns with our cleaning rods, lest we adversely affect accuracy through an imbalance of hot gasses at the moment the bullet clears the muzzle.

Yet, we think nothing of a slant brake, the few of which I've seen up close resemble the result of taking the barrel to a mitre box, and roughly hacking it off at a 45 degree angle with a hacksaw, and maybe cleaning the burrs off with a dremel.

What gives? Where's the secret sauce with the slant brake that suspends all our concerns about scratched crowns?

 

[nalioth]

How is it "timed," i.e. how do you set up the threads so the brake ends up right side up? Is there a jamnut or something?

All AKs (well, most) have a spring loaded detent at 12 o'clock on the front sight block. All AK muzzle devices have a scallop out of 'em where they are supposed to sit. Ya just press the detent in, tighten the muzzle device up til ya can't tighten it no mo', let go the detent, back off the muzzle device till it *CLICKS*. You're set. (AKs were made for dirt-dumb conscripts, and are sometimes too dumb for us to fathom)

geekWithA.45, the slant brake (any AK muzzle device) doesn't touch the crown. AK's weren't meant for accuracy, but volume of fire (see Soviet battle doctrine for the period it was designed for)

I've had some of my ban-type AKs muzzles threaded and on some I've gone ahead and yanked off the ban FSB and replaced it with a military FSB (with threads and bayo lug).

 

[benEzra]

What gives? Where's the secret sauce with the slant brake that suspends all our concerns about scratched crowns?

The brake is larger than the bullet diameter, so the bullet doesn't touch it as it goes by.

The barrel is a tight fit around the bullet, though, and the crown is the last thing that touches the bullet as it transitions to free flight. That would probably give the crown a greater potential effect on bullet wobble.

 

[Gewehr98]

I don't know which slant brakes you've looked at.

Riddle me this, batman, because I don't see the consistency.

The slant brake I installed on my SAR-1 is surprisingly pretty well made. The blast deflector portion is quite a bit larger than bore diameter, and you can tell some amount of thought went into the construction. (Not simply a threaded tube cut with a miter saw at a fixed angle, see the pic below)

The actual barrel crown is recessed into the slant brake behind a false muzzle, and well-protected from dings or abuse.



I've seen no real changes in either accuracy or POI with the slant brake, and I'm of the opinion it's causing no more off-axis bullet tipping than the closed-bottom AR-15/M16 birdcage flash hider as used on that weapons system.

 

[Erinyes]

I like the Bulgarian fishgill brake myself. My SLR-95 feels almost as tame as an AR. There's not a lot of felt muzzle blast, either, though it does seem very loud. I'd say it's louder than my M14.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Keydokee, that makes sense. Brake diameter > bore diameter.

That's why I ask questions: so I grow smarter.

Thanks!