rellascout
member
Why is it the Kahr manual says not to sling shot the PM9 or the MK9? What is it about the design which necessitates use of the slide lock release?
Slingshoting a Kahr MK9
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The Lone Haranguer
Member
I know of nothing inherent to the design, since I've always been able to "slingshot" (although I actually prefer an overhand grip) the slide on both my PM9 and E9. My guess is that because the slide is so small (although better shaped, with deep serrations, than most guns of its size), people unaccustomed to it may tend to "ride" or "short-stroke" it. The smaller you make a handgun, the less forgiving it is of less than perfect handling/manipulation techniques. (And, BTW, this is another reason why I never recommend empty chamber carry.)
Skylerbone
Member
I've read other posts claiming the first round winds up pointing downward and jamming but it was stated it happened with 1 of 5 mags and that was an aftermarket 8 round. I'd say a bad mag is a bad mag and does not reflect on the pistol itself.
rellascout
member
Which would you choose the PW9 or the MK9? I am partial to metal guns myself but for something this small weight matters if I want to pocket carry.
Luis Leon
Member
I don't believe you have to use the slide lock release, only. I don't have to on my CW9 or, on a PM9 I recently shot. I rack the slide and into the chamber goes the round at the top of the magazine. Some people may not be able to slingshot the slide smartly enough to seat that first round. So, they experience malfunctions. Then Kahr gets calls asking if something is wrong. Yes, something is probably wrong--their technique. So instead of dealing with that, they just write into their manual that you must use the slide lock release.
rellascout
member
I agree to an extent but I have read replies from experienced shooters who have had issues.
dfariswheel
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You have a very small, hard to hold gun with a very strong recoil spring.
It's very easy to fail to pull the slide all the way to the rear and fully release it before it starts to slip forward.
Kahr determined that too many people were trying to slingshot the slide to load and were just failing to do it properly, causing a stoppage.
They started recommending the slide stop method simply to eliminate operator error and complaints that something was wrong with the gun.
It's very easy to fail to pull the slide all the way to the rear and fully release it before it starts to slip forward.
Kahr determined that too many people were trying to slingshot the slide to load and were just failing to do it properly, causing a stoppage.
They started recommending the slide stop method simply to eliminate operator error and complaints that something was wrong with the gun.
usp9
Member
The Lone Haranguer said;
I concur. Well described. All of my Kahr function fine racking the slide but I don't own any PM or MKs.
I concur. Well described. All of my Kahr function fine racking the slide but I don't own any PM or MKs.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
rellascout said:
I chose my PM9 because I wanted to pocket carry it. It performs quite well in that role provided your pocket is large enough. I felt the MK9 would tug at my pocket and waistband and be less comfortable, based on experienced with steel small-frame revolvers, which are roughly the same weight.
jfrey
Member
If that first round isn't setting high, right up against the feed lips, the first time you slingshot the slide you will know immediately why Kahr says to use the slide stop method. The round will nose right into the feed ramp and you have a jam. On my CW9 if you insert a mag hard with the slide closed or reinsert a mag a couple of times with the slide closed, the top round won't be setting against the feed lips as the first round tends to nose down slightly from hitting the underside of the slide. Rack it with this condition and the evidence is clear.
Gun Geezer
Member
On my autos, I lock the slide back and manually load the 1st round in the chamber, then ease the slide forward.
That way, I don't have to reload the magazine.
Never had a problem, but I don't own any Kahrs.
That way, I don't have to reload the magazine.
Never had a problem, but I don't own any Kahrs.
I think this is plausible. When a gun is "running" recoil creates relatively violent reward travel and a relatively violent return to battery - slingshotting doesn't quite duplicate this. A round could be chambered differently when slingshotted than it is when the gun runs - causing it to hit a different POI. Locking the slide back and dropping it might more closely duplicate how the round chambers when the gun is running.
I'm well aware of Kahr's recommendations on how to feed the first round - it's sort of central to why my P380 sits in a safe instead of my back pocket. Kahrs push the envelope on overall size - one way they accomplish this is by offsetting the feed ramp to provide room for the trigger mechanism and allow a lower profile. My P380 needs to have the first round loaded by dropping the slide release - the first round from a full magazine won't feed if I slingshot it. Unfortunately when I check a cartridge that has been loaded this way the hollow point has been severely distorted from slamming into the feed ramp and I could easily see how that first shot would be a flyer. I've not checked other rounds deeper in the magazine to see if this happens during normal firing.
Skylerbone
Member
If the slide is fully to the rear when you slingshot then you are simulating, within a few mm + or - what the pistol would do with every subsequent round. How that would deform or improperly chamber only the first round would be the true mystery. That aside, the base of the bullet is far more critical to accuracy than the nose.
I suppose if improperly crimped or repeatedly checking the first round it is conceivable that OAL could change by pushing the bullet back. In the first instance however all follow up rounds would be subject to similar bullet movement and likely not consistant. For the second instance the solution involves firing the first round and not constantly rechecking it. If the pistol goes to battery, it's ready to fire.
I too am of the opinion that Kahr wishes to avoid broken extractors from drops on a chambered round. If 6-8 rounds of 9mm is lacking you didn't bring enough back up.
I suppose if improperly crimped or repeatedly checking the first round it is conceivable that OAL could change by pushing the bullet back. In the first instance however all follow up rounds would be subject to similar bullet movement and likely not consistant. For the second instance the solution involves firing the first round and not constantly rechecking it. If the pistol goes to battery, it's ready to fire.
I too am of the opinion that Kahr wishes to avoid broken extractors from drops on a chambered round. If 6-8 rounds of 9mm is lacking you didn't bring enough back up.
dfariswheel posted my understanding also.
The short buttstock gives a less stable grip and the tendency is to let the gun tilt/rock backward as the slide is drawn back. This less than stable platform hampers the retraction of the slide against an already stiff recoil spring when the gun is new.
If you hold the frame completely still when you retract the slide fully, you shouldn't have any problems manually chambering a round from the magazine without using the slide stop
The short buttstock gives a less stable grip and the tendency is to let the gun tilt/rock backward as the slide is drawn back. This less than stable platform hampers the retraction of the slide against an already stiff recoil spring when the gun is new.
If you hold the frame completely still when you retract the slide fully, you shouldn't have any problems manually chambering a round from the magazine without using the slide stop
outerlimit
Member
I've never used the slide stop to chamber a round on any Kahr and I've never had a problem chambering a round. I don't like to use the slide stop because it puts wear on the slide stop notch. That and they teach you not to use fine motor skills when in stressful situations.
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