SLR 95 MB: Can you replace thumbhole stock?

[VaniB.]

This Yugoslavian AK rifle comes with a black plastic thumbhole stock and strap. It is the variety with a milled receiver and chrome lined barrel. I have seen two sellers on guns america classifieds claim it is legal to put a pistol grip and regular butt stock on this rifle, and was shows a photo of it with the changover already performed.

I'd hate to think that both these guys would both provide wrong and illegal advice. But, my better judgement makes me suspicious that this rifle would have come with a pistol grip if it was allowed. After all, who prefers a thumbhole stock on an AK?!!

Is it legal to get rid of the thumbhole stock?

 

[Ant Mod]

Yes it can have a pistol grip as long as you put a US parts kit in it (or something like that). As it stands alone you cant just swap on a pistol grip, it has to do with the laws.

http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/kits/index.html

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Anybody know how you prove there the proper number of US made parts in your AK? Or more importantly, how any prosecutors can prove there aren't enough US made parts in your AK?

 

[yankytrash]

US parts, in the case of replacement import parts, are usually marked, about 80% of the time (80% being a number I just pulled from my butt). Most prevelant mark is a "C".

The way the prosecutors handle it is by making you prove it's legal. Unwritten law says that if the prosecutor can't be held liable for wrongful prosecution, then "guilty until proven innocent" is fine. Been there, done that.

 

[VaniB.]

Ok, understood.

Then the NEXT QUESTION is:

If the AWB sunsets, will these requirements go out the window with it? (And I can then put on any grip and manufactured clip I choose to use?)

 

[yankytrash]

Sorry, no. You're gettin hit with a double-whammy on an import-style rifle. It's an issue with the import ban of '89, not the AW ban of '94. Unfortunately, the import ban doesn't have a sunset.


Edit: Wait a minute, wait a minute, just reread the post and it finally sank into the density I call a skull.
Yes, if the AW ban sunsets, you can put the better furniture combo on it, as long as they're US made. They're readily available all over the net.

HOWEVER, some, including myself, say it is legal to put the US furniture of your choosing on it now. It is only one or two ATF officer's opinions that say if it was manufactured with a thumbhole, it stays a thumbhole. In my opinion, some office-junky's opinion is just that - opinion. There is no law saying that you can't put a US made stockset on it now. Until there's an actual law, there's no crime.
When it comes down to it, and there's threat of court, opinions go out the window. Like I said - been there, done that. Once had to call that bluff for prebans I inherited in NY state of all places, and got'm all back by simply calling their bluff. No lawyers, no court date was even set, just little ol' me and my threats of bringing the case to court.



When in doubt in adding accessories to your blaster, make sure the parts are US made.

 

[Ant Mod]

If the AWB sunsets, will these requirements go out the window with it? (And I can then put on any grip and manufactured clip I choose to use?)

You really need to read the laws regarding the not only the AWB but also the importation ban. I think the import ban states that you cannot change an imported rifle to have any evil features or something, it has to stay the way it was improted because it was made outside the US. The US parts kit gets around this by making the majority of the parts on the gun US made, so you can claim the gun is more US made then foreign made and thus you can modify it. This wont change when the AWB sunsets.

What will change is you can put a folding stock on it or something similar.

But once again you need to read the laws yourself. Maybe try contacting the BATF.

 

[huduguru]

The SLR series is Bulgarian, not Yugoslavian.

 

[yankytrash]

Ant mod,

All worthy advice, but see, it isn't an imported rifle. With the correct US parts count, it's a US rifle. Maybe technically not 100%, but by law a US rifle. If were imported, it would have had to been imported in-country before '89 (which would also make it "preban", but let's not muddle things up here... ), being an AK variant.

 

[Ant Mod]

All worthy advice, but see, it isn't an imported rifle. With the correct US parts count, it's a US rifle. Maybe technically not 100%, but by law a US rifle.

I completely agree with you. When you put the US parts kit on it, more then 50% of the parts are now US made, thus it is a US made rifle. As such you can now add a pistol grip and normal capacity detachable magazine. However you still cannot add a folding stock because of the AWB.

When the AWB sunsets, and if it is not replaced, you will still have to add the US parts to be allowed to change it from its orginal configuration. But then you can add a folding stock etc.

There are two completely seperate laws governing the original posters question. One as you stated from 1989 regarding imported firearms. Second the AWB.

I think the posters second question was, when the AWB sunsets, and if its not replaced, can he buy an imported AK varient and just swap on a pistol grip. And the answer to that is no. He is still governed by the 1989 law.

 

[VaniB.]

Yep, I meant it's Bulgarian. When I look at that silly thumbhole stock, I can't help but automatically think Yugoslavian as in Yugo. (Like the silly Yugo car)


Well, that settles that. I'll get rid of the stupid thing if I can't change it legally or without worrying of going to jail. The final deciding factor to give it up is that I would have to use special clips with it if I put the US parts on it. I'm not willing to be confined to designated special clips. All an all: The anti-gunners are right! What stupid laws and superficial nonsence all this amounts to.

One last question: Why was I seeing Romanian AKs being sold at the gunshop this week (For $199.!!) with pistol grips and regular butt stock? I don't understand why the SLR has to have a thumbhole stock, but a Romanian AK can rock and roll with the different furniture!

 

[GigaBuist]

One last question: Why was I seeing Romanian AKs being sold at the gunshop this week (For $199.!!) with pistol grips and regular butt stock?

Those take special 10 round magazines -- that's why they're cheap.

 

[BryanP]

Those take special 10 round magazines -- that's why they're cheap.

Not necessarily. Century has legally converted a lot of those WASR-10's to take standard-capacity magazines by replacing enough parts with US-made.

 

[gogetumnow]

All WASR's entered the country as WASR-10's, meaning they only took 10 round magazines. In this way it was neutered. The goons at century just slap a US trigger, disconnector, hammer, pistol grip, and gas rod. They then mill out part of the frunt trunion and open up the mag well. Wala, another Normal Capacity AK is born!

From what I understand pretty much every AK imported now except the SAR enters the country as a neutered AK. The SAR makes it in only because it goes to a "bonded warehouse" where they are given the US parts treatment.

You can indeed modify an SLR-95MB to pistol grip configuration with the proper parts. However be aware that in addition to the US parts, you'll have to drill and rivet in a lower tang for the buttstock as in it's current neutered configuration it does not have this. Some have reported success with using screws instead of rivets for this. Or you can buy a special stock set from Ironwood Designs that makes it so you don't have to do it.

The SLR series are very high quality weapons as they are milled recevier AK's. Quality control is usually quite good at Arenal of Bulgaria.

If this all sounds like too much of a headache, just go pick up an SLR-101-4 or a SAM-7 from Arsenal of Nevada. It will be excatly what you would've had in the end.

http://www.arsenalinc.com/sam7.html

http://www.arsenalinc.com/slr101sg.html

Good Luck!

 

[VaniB.]

6/6/04
So then 30 round magazines can only be used with pre 1989 AK's. It's legal to own the magazines, but don't ever be caught sticking them in a post ban SLR 95. Right?

Also, does that "Arsenal of Nevada" use imported parts or is the whole rifle made in the US? Some how, a fully made AMERICAN AK doesn't seem right. I don't know if I'd want to own a 100% American made AK! It would Kind of be like buying a Colt H Bar made in China.

6/7/04
Ok, I'm reading everything on this thread more carefully this time. It seems I can use foreign magazines over the 10 round limit, if I convert the rifle to a majority of US parts. I have no problem with using US made stock and other parts, as long as I get to retain the large chunk of metal that says "MADE IN BULGARIA"

 

[gogetumnow]

You make a good point Vani about AK's made in the USA. In a way it does seem a little odd to make an American AK. However Arsenal of Nevada is licensed by Arsenal of Bulgaria to make their milled receivers. Hence on the SAM-7's you will see the official Arsenal of Bulgaria logo. Reports have stated that differences between the Bulgarian milled receiver and the American milled receiver are indistinguishable.

These days it's difficult to get an AK without a whole bunch of US parts. Essentailly your options are:

1. An imported AK with all foreign parts with the ability to only accept single stack 10round or less mags. See Saiga, SLR-101S1, WASR10 (not hi cap), or the SA-2000M.

2. In imported AK that has been gutted of a few foriegn parts (like the FCG, gas piston, pistol grip) and replaced with US parts. See SAR's, WASR-Hi Cap, SLR-101S3, SLR-101S4. These can then legally accept and take high capacity magazines.

3. An entirely US built AK like the SAM-7, although I think it has a couple foreign parts in it like the barrel, bolt, etc.

4. The SLR-95 series. This is a bit of an odd duck because it is entirely foreign made parts AND accepts high capacity magazines. I guess the only comprimise is that it has a butthole stock. I think the ATF got wise and decided that a butthole stock was not enough to make it a kindler, gentler AK becuase you don't see them anymore.

Anyway, even though they have a lot of US parts in them now, I'd stronly recommend everybody pick one up now. I'm sure that in the not too distant future guys will be paying upwards of 1000 bucks for a lowly SAR becuase they'll be banned or something. It's pretty difficult to lay hands on a pre-ban (pre 89) AK these days for less than 1k.

 

[VaniB.]

I'd like to keep the SLR95 MB if I can put on the new furniture and use the high capacity clips. I'd be willing to make any number of modifications on it with US parts, as long as I can accomplish this. I don't want to change it to US parts and be stuck using US made 10 shot clips.

Hopefully I've finally got the whole picture correct now. I'll start looking into parts replacement. I know nothing about AKs, their parts, and what's ivnvolved with Frankensteining this gun. Hopefully anybody like myself with a mechanical inclination can tinker with it fairly easy and make the modifications.