Smith 64 questions

[smee781]

OK all here is the deal, I've got some questions and hope some one out there may know the answers. I got a 4' SS model 64 and want to know.

1. Can I take a model 65 cylinder and put it in my model 64. I know I would have to check time and gap on the gun, but could the gun itself hold up to seldom 357 use? Practice with 38 and carry 357.

2. Has anyone had there k frame cut for moon clips, if so how do you like them? I have experience with moon clips but not with a 38/357 moon cliped.

3. With the gun cut for moonclips could I shoot 38 Super out of it also or does the gun have to have the 9x23 rechamber job done on it like pinnical does. I dont know the demintions between the two.

Thanks for ya'lls help,
Smee781

 

[harmonic]

I have a Dell laptop.

I wonder if I can have it coverted to a Kawasaki Jet Ski?

 

[smee781]

Yes you can harmonic,,,,with enough money you could have it converted. Harmonic, if you dont have any anwsers for my questions ****, sit down and color in your coloring book on the bench with the rest of the children.

I figure if I'm going to have it cut for moon clips it might as well be done on a 357 cylinder and not the original 38 cylinder.

Thanks,
Smee781

 

[harmonic]

 

[smee781]

Ha Ha So funny!

 

[Old Fuff]

In theory you might be able to do so, but in practice it would be so expensive that you could save money by selling what you have and add the conversion cost to the money you received to buy what you really want.

Cylinders are not a drop-in sort of thing, and if the job was done right the barrel would have to be removed and shortened at the back - followed by re-throating. You didn't mention if the barrel is pinned or not, but if it isn't, it is crush fitted and that brings more problems into play.

Yes, you can have it modified to use clips, but I don't think the 38/357 size would work too well with rimless pistol cartridges that have deeper extractor grooves. I understand that some game competitors have taken to using a combination of moonclips and .38 Short Colt cartridges for faster, easier ejection. I haven't tried it, and most likely won't.

 

[L-2]

http://www.moonclips.com/

Here's a company which does conversions, but...like "Old Fuff" mentioned, the cost of converting to a .357 cylinder may be cost prohibitive, vs. just getting a K frame already in .357, then getting it machined for moon-clips.
Off the top of my head, I'd estimate ~$450 for this work.
Get a Mod. 65 cylinder, est. $100.
Have the cylinder machined for moon-clips, $100.
Shipping both ways to a gunsmith to install the Mod. 65 cylinder, $100.
Gunsmithing to install Mod. 65 cyl., $150.

Maybe I'm off here and there. It might go to $600...

 

[Old Fuff]

Notice in the above picture the barrel is not pinned through the topstrap. This means that the barrel's thread and the frame were crush fitted. As a general rule if a crush-fit barrel has to be removed it's considered to be a factory job - and S&W wouldn't under any circumstances fit a .357 Magnum cylinder into a .38 Special revolver. Also if you don't have special blocks to hold the frame while the barrel is unscrewed you risk warping the frame and ruining the gun.

Often when considering a possible conversion or other custom work it comes down to "is it practical to do," rather then "can it be done?"

 

[Stainz]

I have heard that K, L, & N frames have use-specific heat treatments for ultimate use pressure demands. That would make a .38 K frame too soft for .357 Magnum use - and then there is the barrel. I'd start with a 65/66 - certainly available lightly used these days from the used market as security guard company trade-ins, etc. Better still, a 627 Pro comes moonclip ready, although it's an 8-shot N-frame. In any case, that 64 would be an ideal home defender.

Sadly, highly modified revolvers are hard to sell or trade - and that customizing money spent, plus some, is usually lost. Good luck.

Stainz

 

[Brian Williams]

I have taken a 38 barrel and put it on a 65, but I would not put a 65 cylinder in a 64. When I talked to S&W about having a standard/pencil barrel put on a 65 and running 357s thru it the guy said he sees no problem in doing that but he would not swap cylinders. Also when I talked to him about my changing the cylinder from a 940 into a 642 he said S&W had done it but Wiley Clap, some gun writer, said it would not work in the field. According to S&W barrels are ok to swap in a K frame, like Old Fuff said if you have the proper tools, but they would not recommend any thing else.

 

[Jim Watson]

The K-357 cylinder is longer than the .38 cylinder. So, to put a magnum cylinder in a special gun would require not only the usual fitting and timing for the cylinder, the shank of the barrel would also have to be shortened to clear. Gunsmiths don't work cheap any more and you could buy a model 65 for less cost than having your 64 altered.

If you wanted to shoot .38 Super, you would have to have the chambers reamed as for the 9x19-9x23-Super conversion. Which then does not work well with .38 or .357 according to Pinnacle, which does this stuff routinely.

I have worked with clip converted L frames and long skinny revolver cartridges hanging in a thin clip do not load nearly as easily as short heavy .45 ACPs in a stiffer clip. Those competitors are not using .38 Short Colt brass for nothing.

My recommendation would be to buy some Comp III speedloaders and practice with them.

 

[Old Fuff]

I have heard that K, L, & N frames have use-specific heat treatments for ultimate use pressure demands.

There is a lot of confusion on this point. Beginning with the original .357 Magnum revolver introduced in 1935 and going forward, the frames were the same as used in their .44 Hand Ejector model, but the steel and heat treating processes used in .357 Magnum cylinders were entirely different. This was one reason the factory warned owners of .38/44 Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman .38 Special revolvers not to get any ideas about rechambering them to use the new, and much more powerful cartridge.

When S&W introduced the K-frame .357 Magnum they didn’t change the material and heat treating specifications used in earlier model 15 .38 Special frames, but they did beef up the frame at certain points, especially around where the barrel is threaded into the frame, and the top strap.

This beefing up procedure has continued over time on both the N and J frames. The L-frame was dimensionally strengthened when it was introduced.

So could I convert a late production model 10 (Military & Police) to .357 Magnum by using a model 19 (Combat Magnum) cylinder? Yes, I could, although it would be much wiser to put a model 10 “pencil barrel” on a model 13 revolver (.357 Military & Police). I have seen this done, using a model 10, two-inch snubby barrel. Would I do it? Not likely, because of the expense, not technical questions involving the conversion. I want a .357 Magnum/2” snubby like another hole in my head.

Using special steel alloys and heat-treating in Magnum cylinders is not limited to Smith & Wesson. For years informed individuals would have Colt Single Action Army .357 Magnum cylinders rechambered to .44 Special or .45 Colt, knowing that the material would give them an edge when using heavy (but reasonable) handloads.

 

[SaxonPig]

The ever popular #33.

Modifying a gun into a different configuration.

33. Trying to turn the gun you have into the gun you want is never a good idea. It will be cheaper, faster and easier to sell the gun you don’t want and buy the one you do want rather than try to alter or convert your gun into a different configuration. In most cases the alterations suggested are not possible to due to physical limitations and if they were the cost of such work would be beyond all but wealthy fools who like to throw their money away.

 

[strangelittleman]

The last three posters are dead on. Just be happy w/ what you have, practice and gain confidence in the accumilated experience from good practice.
The .38spl chambered S&W K-frame, M&P series revolvers, in all their versions, were perhaps the most widely issued/ purchased sidearms of the 20th century,and for good reason.
They are perhaps the most reliable, durable, accurate, user friendly, service pistols ever fielded.
Certainly they are the most reliable service pistol of the 20th century.
Sure, they are not flashy, high capacity, nor are they the most powerful sidearm but more badguys have fallen to them than any other sidearm in the U.S. and perhaps in the world, when one considers that it has been standard issue, at one time or the other ( in either.38S&W or .38 spl) with nearly every country on earth(with the exception of most of the Iron Curtain) throughout the 20th and early 21st centuries.
If the M64 is the only pistol you ever have, you'll never be underarmed.
Prior to my dept. switching to "plastic fantastic", I was issued a M65 w/ .38spl+P ammo, for over a dozen years and never felt I was at a disadvantage.
In closing, my advice would be to get some good speedloaders, a lot of range ammo, some good +p defensive ammo, practice and be confident knowing that you own one of the finest fighting pistols, chambered in one of the most versatile, effective cartridges ever to come off any assembly line.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Can you please post or PM me the other 32 rules and any others after 33.

 

[earplug]

handload for more power

For the cost of all the above. Just work up a hot load in your 38 cases.
It was done years ago before the .357 was made.
Gun will respond the same, quickly develop end shake, top strap flame cutting, possible split barrel at the forcing cone and a possible grenade if you pour to much powder in a case.
Don't forget to buy some new firing pins and rivets to replace the firing pins while you work up some loads. Real easy to have a pierced primer when working up hot loads.
I would use cast lead bullets of about 150 grains to start with. New cases, all trimmed to the same length and marked to keep out of any other 38 spl you may own.

 

[smee781]

OK all thanks for you replies, looks like R2ing the cylinder is out of the question. I may just have it cut for moon clips and go from there, I have plenty of time with the 38spl and never feel underguned (my daily carry is a Smith 649 38spl) so its not that I'm trying to get more power out of this gun, I just thought that if I were to have mach work done to a cylinder that it might as well be done to a 357 cylinder as opposed to the 38 cylinder so that I could have more options if I wanted.

Thanks again all,
Smee781