Smith and Wesson 27 help - double action problems...

[forindooruseonly]

I've recently picked up a no-dash Model 27 that has an issue when attempting to fire double action.

The gun always cocks and works fine in single action, but when I try to pull the trigger double action, sometimes it works, sometimes it locks up. When it does bind up, the trigger will pull partly back, and the hammer will start to move back, maybe a quarter inch, then it stops.

It is a solid stop - not an increasing pressure, just like it hits a wall. I can let the trigger down, then try again and sometimes it will work fine on the second attempt, sometimes it needs a third, or even a fourth try. If it locks and I let off the trigger and cock the hammer, it works fine.

I'm not super familiar with the internals of these, so troubleshooting is a bit out of my realm. Maybe some of you specialists (RC, Old Fuff, Vern, both Jims and all the others that have answered my questions over the years) can help me out again. I don't have a problem sending it to a gunsmith, but I know of none locally I'd take it to, so I'd like to know what's going on first before I send it.

Much appreciated!

 

[rehorne]

Check the ejector rod. See if it is tight. That will cause the cylinder to bind and not turn.
If I remember correctly the older models are righty tighty and the newer ones are lefty tighty

 

[rcmodel]

Could be hammer stirrup bind.

Tighten the strain screw in the bottom front of the grip frame fully tight.

If it has big grips in it, you will have to take them off to get to it.

rc

 

[MrBorland]

Has the trigger returned to it's fully-forward position before the DA pull that locks up? If not, the innards might just need a good cleaning.

 

[forindooruseonly]

Thanks for the suggestions!

rehorne - I just checked and the ejector rod is tight.

RC - I tightened it all the way, it was about a quarter turn out. Still does it occasionally.

MrBorland - the trigger does return fully prior to a DA pull that locks up.

I tightened the strain screw, removed the grips and popped the sideplate off, and cleaned out some of the gummy grease that was in there. After reassembly, it still does it occasionally. However, it doesn't do it near as much as it did - just once in a while now whereas before it was once every three or four pulls.

 

[rcmodel]

cleaned out some of the gummy grease

Did you oil everything in there while you had the sideplate off.

If nothing else, hose it good with Rem-Oil and blow out the excess.

rc

 

[sgt127]

Somethings up with the timing. What you are describing is the bolt (cylinder stop) not dropping out of the way in time. The hand is trying to advance the cylinder, the stop is preventing it from doing so. Easy check, put some tape over the cylinder stop and see if the gun cycles normally.

It MAY just be gummed up inside. Try really cleaning out in there. If that doesn't work, its a failry easy fix for someone who knows what they are doing...

 

[Old Fuff]

On the front of the hammer there is a little lever, called a "sear." When you start to pull the trigger in the double-action mode it pushes against the bottom of the sear and that causes the hammer to rotate backwards. I suspect that there is sometimes something going wrong in the timing and way the trigger is engaging the sear.

Remove the sideplate and mainspring and then while applying thumb pressure against the hammer spur, pull the trigger while watching what is going on with the sear. You may discover clue.

Another less likely possibility is that something is blocking the rearward movement of the rebound slide, but if this is happening it should cause the issue to happen in both single and double action.

 

[BCRider]

How did you clean out the gummy grease buildup? If you simply scraped away the excess and oiled the gun then there's still going to be some gummy buildup between a lot of the parts. Since this is now a "once in a while" sort of malfuntion I'm voting that you still have some gummy buildup in the gun. I suspect that what is needed is to flush the insides with some solvent and work the action while it's still generously solvent'ed up to dissolve and work out the gumminess that is likely making things that should spring into position stick instead.

One option is to liberally spray through the various openings with brake cleaner and then work the DA trigger pull fairly vigourously to work the solvent into all the fits and spaces and dissolve the gumminess.

Another option is to pick up the items to make up a batch of Ed's Red general purpose cleaning solvent. The recipe is easily found with a quick google or other search for "ed's red". Simply remove the grips and make up some of this mixture and pour or squirt it in through the mainspring, trigger and hammer openings generously while holding the gun down over a bucket or tray to catch the drainage. While it's still flushed again work the action fairly rapidly and keep adding more flushing solvent mix. If you see the solvent coming out with a brown or black tinge to it then keep at it until it flushes out clear or red depending on what you're using.

The solvents are ALL bad for your skin and internal organs. Be sure you wear some nitrile gloves during this whole affair. Also the better solvents all smell to high heaven. So it's best done outdoors and well away from any open flame.

If you used brake cleaner then follow up the whole process with a thin body spray oil liberall sprayed in through the same openings, work the action and allow the excess to drain before re-installing the grips. Some compressed air shot thru the same openings will speed things up. But it's still worth sitting it in a bucket muzzle up to allow to drain fully for an hour or so.

If you used Ed's Red then simply allow to drain well muzzle up for an hour. By that time the solvents should have dried away and left a light film of the ATF as corrosion protection and a light duty lubricant. A couple of drops of gun oil down onto the hammer pivot pin is not a bad idea. But that's all you really need to do. The ATF will serve to lubricate the rest of the stuff.

I use the Ed's mix for most of my regular cleaning. For that reason I dose it with a little shot of some Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil. About an ounce of the oil per quart of the total mix. This leaves the final oil film with a little more oil content for lubricating. Use it as an option if you wish.

If I'm right and it's simply a case of a deeper cleaning to remove the grunge then a few repititions with the solvent flush and cycling the action will flush out the grunge and restore the action. There's a few spots inside where light springs are used to move parts of the action. It doesn't take much in terms of dried old oil that turned to glue to mess it up. And it takes a fair exposure time to the solvent to dissolve these gums and work them out.

 

[forindooruseonly]

Well, it's to no avail, I have no clue what's happening - time for it to see a doctor!

Thank you to all who offered suggestions, I didn't get it working, but I learned some things.