"Smooshing" the muzzle

[weaponhead]

In Duncan Long's book on shotguns, he mentions a home made mod of slightly squeezing the muzzle top to bottom in a vice to increase horizontal spread (a poor man's "duckbill"!)

Any one ever try this?

 

[PapaG]

Why? There was an attachment made years ago to do this but it didn't work all that well. A cylinder bore or I.c. choke gives a pretty big pattern already. If you are shooting buck there aren't many pellets to begin with so why spread them wider.

 

[Milkmaster]

Not a good enough reason for me to damage a good useable shotgun.

 

[CaptTripps]

Why would I want to go from a nice round pattern, a cloud, of shot, to a horizontal bar?

 

[weaponhead]

Supposedly better for self-defense purposes....

 

[jeepnik]

Likely something some one said while drunk and it got repeated enough to where some folks believe it. There are lots of "facts" that came about as the result of too much drink.

 

[lemaymiami]

Utter BS....

 

[Captcurt]

Supposedly better for self-defense purposes....

At self-defense ranges the oval barrel will have no advantage. The target would have to be close, inside 20 feet or so, for it to be classified as self-defense. The oval barrel is still going to shoot a tight pattern at that range. We are talking a pattern of maybe 2" in diameter. Oval or round, it will not matter.

For a shotgun to have a torso sized pattern you would need to be 50' or 60'. The only time you could justify shooting at that range would be if he was armed with a gun. If he had a knife the Prosecutor will have a field day with you.

 

[bannockburn]

he mentions a home made mod of slightly squeezing the muzzle top to bottom in a vice to increase horizontal spread (a poor man's "duckbill"!)

Uh, heck no! Not with any of my shotguns!

 

[PapaG]

One other thought...squeeze or smoosh it vertical or horizontal? Want a wide or tall pattern? Come on, help us out here.

 

[rcmodel]

Well, I myself just squish them twice in a vice, in an X shape.

Then no matter when I Jerk the Trigger?
They might get hit with one pellet!!

Seriously, people spend big bucks on things like Vangcomp chokes, and testing every available 00 Buck load on the market.

Trying to get the tightest pattern they can with buckshot, at the longest range possible.

A swarm of buckshot to the chest where you aimed it leaves little chance of stray pellets killing someone across the street.

And a concentrated swarm of 00 Buck center mass makes a rat hole nothing can shake off and keep fighting back.

The old duckbill was designed for riot control back when it was OK to bounce bird shot off the pavement and hit rioters in the legs.

It was later tried in Vietnam jungle as ambush suppression with 00 Buckshot.

Neither use proved really effective, or you could buy a shotgun today with a duck-bill choke.

But, you can't.

rc

 

[jaguarxk120]

I was thinking of a 16 pound hammer!!!!

 

[kBob]

In the late 1970's the Law enforcement folks were all excited about #4 Buck shot and a shot spreader with the idea that it increased hit potential. No thoughts apparently to where the non-hits were to go.

There were a number of spreaders on the market, the most successful of which was sort of two over lapped muzzles. these spread the shot into a pattern one unit high and two to three units wide at whatever range and with that cloud of #4 Buck gave decent coverage......with those round ball .25 cal pellets.

I suppose the thinking was something along the line of "one hit with a .22 Short eqivilent and 26 misses, is better than eight misses with a .32 ACP equivilant and no hits.

One of my instructors thought it meant training and marksman ship standards could be relaxed with the magic muzzle device and that meant less training money spent and happier elected officials and chiefs.

They tried to market the device to sportsmen as well for bird hunting. Lead not as critical they said.....nothing about decreased pattern density.

My first thought on seeing one was that slug shooting and "real buckshot" were ruined by the device.

Does any LEA even use #4 buck these days?

-kBob

 

[MIL-DOT]

In Duncan Long's book on shotguns, he mentions a home made mod of slightly squeezing the muzzle top to bottom in a vice to increase horizontal spread (a poor man's "duckbill"!)

Any one ever try this?

You go first. With pics, please .

 

[Destructo6]

Likely something some one said while drunk and it got repeated enough to where some folks believe it. There are lots of "facts" that came about as the result of too much drink.

I've read references to this sort of modification in various memoirs of the Vietnam war era. Particularly from the book, "Point Man" by SEAL Team 2 Plank Owner, Chief James Watson. His was the "duckbill" type on an Ithaca model 37.

I can't really speak to its effectiveness, but it seems to have been a real life modification with honest to God combat use.

 

[Frostbite]

It just seems wrong to do that to a perfectly functional shotgun.

I understand it has been done in the past, but I also see that it is not done anymore. There must be a reason for that.

 

[4thPointOfContact]

From about 3 years ago: TheHighRoad

On a personal level, I don't see anything really 'wrong' with the idea as long as you realize that you can no longer intermix slug and shot. I wouldn't do the 'smooshing' with a vice though, it would seem neither repeatable nor consistent. If anything, a mandrel and hammer but even that would likely weaken the barrel steel while affecting the shot stream detrimentally.

 

[stchman]

This is the most absurd thing I've ever heard of. Anyone that intentionally does this is dumb.

 

[jeepnik]

I was thinking of a 16 pound hammer!!!!

I heard her daddy had a heart like one.

 

[weaponhead]

Actually, you can.....

'Neither use proved really effective, or you could buy a shotgun today with a duck-bill choke.

But, you can't."


Mossberg HS-410

 

[Telemachus]

Well it might be useful to cut down weeds with... Not much other use that I can see though.

"The old duckbill was designed for riot control back when it was OK to bounce bird shot off the pavement and hit rioters in the legs."

Interesting about bouncing shot off of the pavement. We often forget how much "acceptable" police practice has changed over the course of a

 

[Gun Master]

Likely something some one said while drunk and it got repeated enough to where some folks believe it. There are lots of "facts" that came about as the result of too much drink.

No one would admit to it.

 

[weaponhead]

Likely something some one said while drunk and it got repeated enough to where some folks believe it. There are lots of "facts" that came about as the result of too much drink.

Bizarre comment with zero relevance...thanks so much!

 

[I6turbo]

Shotgun patterns open up a lot more quickly than many people think, especially with Buckshot. Here are some patterns from a cylinder bore using S&B Buckshot. On the left side of the shotgun are two rounds of #00. On the right side of the shotgun are two rounds of #1 Buckshot. The tighter patterns were fired from 5 yards/15 feet. The more open patterns were fired from 10 yards/30 feet.



I've also patterned the same rounds from the same gun with Modified and Full screw-in chokes. With the chokes the patterns are tightened a little bit, but not much. Chokes make a much greater difference in pattern spread with bird/target-size shot (say, #8) than with Buckshot.

 

[Hookeye]

Might be useful if facing an angry mob.