Snake & Bear Country -- how do you load?

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revo

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Hey folks. I do a bit of backpacking here in PA. I get into bear country from time to time, mostly in snake territory though. Been wrestling with an issue here for a while, wondering what you folks think. Here goes...

I always take along a S&W 629 Mountain Gun (44 Mag) when I pack/camp. I load the first two chambers with #9 shot in case I need to dispatch a problematic copperhead or timber rattler. Next four in line are loaded with 240 grain XTP's @ ~1200fps for the rare chance of a black bear encounter.

Never had to use either -- knock wood -- but what are your thoughts? If you pack into snake country that has bears, how would you load?

My fear is dealing with a black bear (or other four-legger, or two-legger for that matter) while having 2 shot shells to go through until I get to the 240's.

...and I aint carryin' a second gun, so don't even go there... :) :) :)
 
A .22 long rifle has taken care of snakes for me, if they're where I don't want 'em. You can just walk around 'em on the trail, though, no real need to kill 'em. I can hit a snakes head from 10 feet with my .22 lr NAA mini and I've used it several times for that, once in my yard in town and a couple of times down on my place. One was curled up under my feeder when I went to dump feed, gave me a thrill. I've had 'em strike my leggin' in the spring. Snakes out the wazzoo down there in the spring and walking in the tall grass, you really have to watch your steps. I always wear snake leggings down there. I never carry anything special to kill snakes with other than just the .22. I HAVE killed 'em with a hoe, don't really NEED a firearm, hoe, shovel, whatever's handy.

Rattlers are pretty good fried. I don't let 'em go to waste if I kill a pretty good sized one. I always have my NAA mini on me in it's little folding grip. It ain't really like having a second gun, but it sure comes in handy. Many times it's the only thing I have with me down on my place or I might have a rifle or shotgun, depending on if I'm nunting or not. Since I got my CCW 10 years ago, I'm usually carrying a 9mm or .38, though, and when I go check my hog trap, I'll often take a .357 in case I see a shootable hog.
 
snake-shot rd.

First chamber up will be snake-shot rd. - the rest will be 240gn JHP's. This is on a 629 Classic, my fly-fishing/field gun.
 
Like said above, worry more about the bear than a snake. You are correct to worry about having to fire 2 shotshell rounds before you get to the real Magnum ammo. Bears are so fast you might not get a third shot off before it's upon you.

Load all 6 chambers with your 240 gr Magnum rounds and carry a walking stick to fend off a snake.
 
My 629 would be loaded with 6 250-300 grain LSWCs to the highest velocity I can handle accurately.

I'm a big fan of the Keith bullet at something over 1200 fps.
 
I'd carry one of those speed strips full of snakeshot. Keep the bear medicine in your gun - it works against a snake in a pinch, snakeshot just makes things a bit easier. Don't see any situation where you'd need to use snakeshot immediately - seems more of a specialty load.
 
Shoot a snake? Wouldn’t it be easier (and better for your ears) if you just pushed it along with a stick, or is there some requirement to kill everything you come across?
 
I don't believe in shooting snakes just because I come across them in the wild. I think a rattler is a beautiful animal, and I've helped hold them against a Jeep for a biologist who was measuring them.

They also help the ecosystem: I can do without rodent infestations, and hantavirus is a real threat here.

Bottom line: 99% of the time, if you see the snake, you don't need to shoot it. You can just step around it, or else it slithers away as fast as it can.

I have a box of snake loads, but if I ever have to use them it's most likely because a snake is coiled up and facing off with my dog. My older dog is vaccinated against rattlesnake bite, and supposedly "rattlesnake aversion trained", but I don't trust either one 100%. The younger dog will get both, as well. So I do my best, but my dogs' lives trump rattlesnakes' any day of the week. Snakes reproduce rapidly when there's a food source.

Now bears, on the other hand, can't just be stepped around. And snake loads don't really do much against bears. If I had to choose, I figure I'd load for bear.

That said, some say that the huge can of pepper spray bear repellent is even more likely to stop an attack than a revolver. I guess it depends on how good you are with the pistol, under stress.:)
 
Carry for Bears and Humans, when it comes to snakes the two most likely things to happen are: 1. he bites and you never knew he was there so your snake shot was useless or 2. You see him and can move away without killing it.

Most snakes only need to be dispatched if they come on to your property or into your camp.

I put 2 hollow points (for two leggers) in first and then either soft points or hard cast in the rest of the cylinder (for 4 leggers).

Then again snakes are not a problem here in New England.
 
1. he bites and you never knew he was there so your snake shot was useless or 2. You see him and can move away without killing it.

Most snakes only need to be dispatched if they come on to your property or into your camp.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
I like RTL's idea about the 44 for bears and the NAA 22 for snakes, but that is just because I own both. Snake shot is a VERY close range proposition, especially on big snakes. At snake shot ranges, a 240gr XTP would be more than sufficient for snakes. For the snakes I would feel obliged to dispatch, I would not want to get within snake shot range of them.

Just carry the 44 with all 240gr XTP's and you will be ready to dispatch anything 4 legged, 2 legged, or no-legged in PA.

Roll Tide
 
If it'll take care of a bear, it'll take care of a snake. Just keep your cool and focus on your front sight.
 
Can't say I've seen it happen, but I can imagine that a full-house Magnum load fired while some shot-caps were still in the chambers might make them pull or shatter in place. Just a (negative thought). O' course, if you pop them off first, ya got no worries, mate.
 
If I HAVE to shoot a snake (or if I do get a hankerin' for rattlesnake chili), I wouldn't use a NAA .22, or any .22

A tiny amount of dust shot isn't good for much.

.38 shotshells would be my minimum, and indeed, that's what I have.:) They're good at 8-10 feet, at least. I wouldn't trust a tiny load of dust shot to do anything at 10 feet.
 
You could get one of those Taurus 4410s - a .410/.45 Colt wheelgun. A .410 shell's pretty good for anti-snake work.

P.S. ArmedBear, where did you get that .38 snakeshot? Can't seem to find any around here.
 
Most snakes only need to be dispatched if they come on to your property or into your camp
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I would have totally agreed with that statement if you had stopped after the word "dispatched", replaced the word "only" with "must" and deleted "need" entirely.

Yes, I know it's an irrational fear, but I hate those dirty SOB snakes. I literally am less afraid of bears than snakes, even though I know full well that I am a delicious looking meal to most bears and that most snakes will slither quickly away from me...
 
Paranoia

My own paranoia, that is.
While I have a snake phobia and will run the other way upon sight, I do worry about snakes and 3rd-parties (dogs & kids). Not sure I would want to use a stick to move a rattling snake away from either. (Not that firing a gun seems too good, either.) Still, maybe a round of snakeshot in the wheelgun just in case. Don't know the spread of snakeshot (there was a link on THR), but even snakeshot can injure a bear's eyes or open mouth. I prefer pepper spray to any handgun against the black bears in my mountains (eastern Washington). I like seeing bears at a distance, but hope I never meet a rattler.
Yes, I hate snakes. I even hate garter snakes.
 
I would just load for the bear threat. I just carry extra toilet paper for snakes!
Click to expand...

What caliber of TP do you pack in those cylinders? Is that what you mean by "wadcutter"? What kind of accuracy do you get, and, dare I ask, at what range? :D

+10x23rd power for snake hatred. Couple years ago I was spading up a small, overgrown vegetable garden when a shovel of dirt turned over a small bed of 4" long snakes. I chopped them into fertilizer. A few minutes later, I was back to shoveling and a twig - about 8" long - slid up under my pants leg and poked my ankle. From a flat-footed start, I cleared my 3' chain link fence, levitated 21' to the garage door, and didn't even touch down until I was in my livingroom. Only then did my heart re-start. Ok...actually, I only jumped about three feet. When my heart *did* re-start, did I ever feel foolish for all that activity, just for a twig from my pecan tree.

It took a whole roll of TP to clean up!!! Yeah, I hate snakes.

Q
 
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Never understood the need to load for snake

I can jump back(while screeching like a girl scout)faster than I can ever safely draw and fire a handgun. Also, I don't think there is a snake in this country that can't be whacked with a long stick if you are of the mind to. I even let rattlers alone.
Load for the bear and don't worry about shooting snakes.
 
Unless you're dealing with cottonmouths, I don't see the dire need to be able to draw on a snake and kill him in a heartbeat. Just hit him with the 240.

If you're a reloader, whip yourself up a couple of Jeff Quinn's snake stoppers:
http://www.gunblast.com/Snake_Stopper.htm
They're homemade shotshells that use a cardboard wad with shot over it capped off with a pure lead roundball. The patterns he got looked even better than commercial shells and also had a nicely centered roundball hole. Stick one of those in there first if you insist on a shotshell. It'll still hurt a bear, especially if you follow up with some 300-grain SWCs.
 
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