'Snap' Sight Picture vs Precise Sight Picture?

[BerettaNut92]

Does anyone else just simply cover the target area with the front sight for quick shots and only use the top of the front sight for precise shots, like BGs behind cover, hostage shots, distance, etc.?

I find 'driving the dots' I get the same amount of accuracy at SD distances (sub 7 yards) but seems to be quicker over using the top of the frontsight--I find I have to 'look for' the top of the frontsight which takes me more time than just covering the target with it.

Or am I overcomplicating matters by using two sight pictures?

 

[Sean Smith]

I don't think so. For fast shots at close range frontsightpress can easily deliver accurate hits without getting a perfect sight picture. The thing to watch out for is that you don't go so fast that you lose the front sight when you pull the trigger.

Basically, time spent aiming should be directly related to how far you are shooting. That's just good practice IMHO.

 

[45R]

With my 1911 I shoot over my sights and with the Sigs I just use the dot method.

 

[Smoke]

I think it's a good training practice to allow yourself a little more time to acquire a good sight picture.

In application: I think just getting enough sight picture to know you're on target (especially at close range) is sufficient.

Slow in practice.
Faster in a fight.

Smoke

 

[Rosco Benson]

Learning and refining just what an "acceptable" sight picture looks like, for a given marksmanship problem, is one of those things that our practice sessions ought to help address. If the target is big and close versus small and distant, a differing degree of precison is required, right? Thus a differing degree of refinement of the sight picture is required.

Rosco

 

[Ankeny]

Or am I overcomplicating matters by using two sight pictures?

In Brian Enos' book he describes five different methods of using the sights, Type 1 thru Type 5 focus. See what you need to see to make the shot. At seven yards I shoot from my index and I align the sights by feel with my vision confirming the index. At times, all I need to see is the slide peripherally, at other times I may look through the sights with my focal point split somewhere between the end of the pistol and the target face. The important thing is to see enough to be able to call the shot with certainty at the very instant the gun fires.

 

[cratz2]

When talking about defensive handguns - particularly the one I carry - I generally practice drawing from concealment as quickly and as safely as possible and then getting on a target at 7 yards and double tapping ASAP! Generally, I focus on the front sight and pull the trigger probably half a second before I am actually truly 'on target'.

For whatever reason, I've almost always used a 50 yard slow fire rimfire target regardless of the distance at which I am shooting and I rarely am out of the black. I'm sure I could do better with practice and in all honesty, I know I'm nowhere near as good as I was when I was throwing $25 of 9mm down range every day at the range with my Taurus PT99 but then, I hardly ever carried that gun.

At 15 yards, I guess I tend to dedicate about another fraction of a second to align the sights though when using a full-sized gun - either a 1911, the Taurus or a 9mm CZ - I don't think I really use the sights much at that distance either. I still focus more on speed while not straying terribly from the target.

At 25 yards, without using sights, I think I will only be in the black of that small bore target about 60% of the time so I tend to add about one full second of aiming time before taking the shot. Honestly, at 25 yards, it's getting to the point where unless the other person is highly skilled or was already well in position, he's not going to have a great chance at getting me in a vital area so I'd really rather dedicate the extra time towards a well placed shot.

Of course, none of this really matters much as the other guy is very likely going to be dedicated to getting the hell out of the way anyway!

 

[C. H. Luke]

"Does anyone else just simply cover the target area with the front sight for quick shots and only use the top of the front sight for precise shots, like BGs behind cover, hostage shots, distance, etc.?"

Personaly never use any other than good sight pic and alignment. You mention "precise & Hostage shots" so am assuming this is for Self-Defense practice.
Don't want to be forced to make a "choice" in an actual confrontation between
a "flash", etc. sight pic and a true one since it will, & should be, an unconcious process even with the probability of a massive adrenaline dump.

 

[cratz2]

I guess that's basically what I do... Focus on the front sight until it is just about covering up what I intend on hitting..

 

[Ankeny]

Folks who spend most of their time shooting competitions of one type or another at the higher levels have learned that visual inputs are what allows the processing of those elements required for high speed shooting. You need to see what you need to see to make the shot. Anything more is a waste of time.

The shot dictates the visual cues required. Bullseye shooting is substantially different than IPSC shooting. Then there is the matter of experience level. Most folks will never be able to shoot 6 rounds into the A zone of an IPSC target at 7 yards from the holster in 1.75 seconds. Those who can, certainly see something, and many will call each and every shot at the instant the gun fires. But what we see is not a classical sight picture followed by a classical trigger press.

 

[SnWnMe]

I take my time fast, how's that?

 

[Ankeny]

"Time" and "fast" are relative. The fact is, out to seven yards, the pistol should have the sights in alignment at the end of the presentation and the gun should fire at the instant the extension is complete if not slightly before. Sticking a gun out in front of your face first, followed by hunting for and/or aligning the sights is not a good idea.

I would think anyone who is intimately familiar with their firearms could close their eyes and present the pistol, then open their eyes and have the sights in good enough alignment to hit the A zone (or -0 zone) at 7 yards just about every time.

 

[SnWnMe]

You'd be surprised how easy it is to miss at that range if the shooter doesn't do enough presentation drills.

 

[zahc]

At 7 yards I can darn near point shoot a ragged (baseball size) hole with sights removed.

 

[9mmepiphany]

if you want to see how dependant you are on your sights, try shooting in a dark/dim light situation (no cheating, cover up your night sights)...


that's what they trained us to do before the days of nightsights and modern flashlight techniques (back in the days of wheelguns). you'll see just how good your body/arms/feet alignment is.

 

[labgrade]

"I would think anyone who is intimately familiar with their firearms could close their eyes and present the pistol, then open their eyes and have the sights in good enough alignment to hit the A zone (or -0 zone) at 7 yards just about every time."

Yup.

"You'd be surprised how easy it is to miss at that range if the shooter doesn't do enough presentation drills."

& that's the whole point.

Empty your handgun, verify & re-verify & every time you pick it up agaon, re-verify. Twice. (this from one who did shoot out their own house window once ... makes you check some .... )From our couch to TV-distance - draw, present & trigger-drop. Look at your sight sometime during the trigger drop to see how close you were to target COM. Do it more till you don't use sights for under 7 yards. You'll like it.

"hostage shots." I hope we're talking IPSC-type targets only, & not a serious "saving an innocent" scenario.

 

[clubsoda22]

At SD distances of less than 10 yards i don't even use the sights. I can point shoot and hit what i'm looking at. Other than that, i can use a flash sight picture out to 25 and hit. Farther than that or a hostage shot, i'll be paying more attention to my sights.

 

[Ankeny]

clubsoda:

That's pretty good, assuming the target isn't the size of a barn door.

 

[clubsoda22]

FBI shillouettes. It took a lot of practice and dry fire drills. It was kind of a competition, my buddy has allways been quick shot. So i did a lot of practice, and we went to the range togeather over winter break.

I drew my taurus PT92 from concealment, strafing while firing at 10 yards, 4 shots per second, 18 shots, only one flyer, the rest were kill zone, three of them actually touched. His jaw dropped. I smiled. I still maintain that i was just having a good day

 

[Texas Bob]

As a San Antonio police officer pointed out to me, you "aim" at targets, and fire from "snap" when you are "in fear of your life." He said if you have the "time" for a "precise" sight picture then it might be "murder" instead of "self defense."

 

[C. H. Luke]

This "IPSC" style technique is great but within limits. It'still
competiton/ "Game" methodolgy always done under very well controlled
and defined circumstances and under stress, but stress from the use of timed fire and competiton with others. This is not anywhere near the same, or applicable, to the use of Deadly Physical Force in a self-defense situaton.
Nor are some techniqes rational when one is forced to deal with the Massive adrenaline dump probably faced in this type of encounter.

Explaining to a Grand Jury that you used a "Flash" or "Snap" sight picture, etc. may well jepordize one's case/credibility.

 

[Ankeny]

C.H. Luke:

In the aftermath of a justifiable shooting, the type of sight picture isn't even an issue. If the shooting isn't justified it won't matter whether you were point shooting or shooting off of a bench.

 

[Zak Smith]

Brian Enos' most excellent book, Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals discusses several different types of aiming and focus. I highly recommend this book.

At 7 yards or less, you can shoot by using your body's "index". See book for more details.

-z