Snub Nose - Biggest comfortable Carry

[Fat Boy]

OK, I know the title of this thread is a bit confusing- Sorry, I am trying to get to a conclusion in my thinking and would appreciate some help.

I recently fired 50 rounds through a S&W (range rental) lightweight, 5 shot revolver. This was my first experience shooting a lightweight snub. The rounds were reloads from the range (I had to shoot their bullets in their gun, which makes sense to me). Anyway, the shells were full wadcutters, and I am guessing probably a bit light in load, to save wear and tear on the gun. The point is, the recoil HURT-

Does an all steel frame snub nose reduce recoil significantly? If so, what options do I have in gun selection?

Thanks!

 

[GRIZ22]

Does an all steel frame snub nose reduce recoil significantly? If so, what options do I have in gun selection?


Yes it does. A 14 oz airweight has 4 times the felt recoil than a 20 oz steel frame with everything else (ammo, grips, etc) being equal. An old steel J frame. A new 640 weighs 24oz I think and that reduces felt recoil even more. I carry a steel J frame and don't think the extra 6 oz are any kind of problem.

A wadcutter makes a good carry load as it is easy to recover for repeat shots, the bullet is already in an efficient shape (a hollowpoint needs to open up a little before it gets in the same shape), penetrates enough (14" plus in ballistic gelatin< and overall is easy on you and the gun.

 

[Dismantler]

You may have been shooting a Model 37. That is the older 11 ounce lightweight snubby. I have shot them, and the felt recoil is more than the newer Airweights, at 15 ounces. Also, the skinny grips are not as good as the "Boot Grips."

I have a Model 442 Airweight and an all steel Model 36. The 36 absorbs the recoil a bit better. I am recoil sensitive, and I will tell you that grips that are more hand filling are better, as they prevent the snubby from snapping back into the web of your thumb. Those skinny grips are hard to hang onto sometimes.

As far as options in gun selection...go to www.smith-wesson.com. These are the new guns. But it will give you an idea of what is out there. You can find good deals on used S&W snubbies if you are willing to shop.

 

[jgo296]

19 ounce 44spec hurts

 

[Cosmoline]

They got it right the first time. A Smith steel 36 or Colt DS are perfect size and weight for .38 Special CCW's.

 

[GRIZ22]

A 14 oz airweight has 4 times the felt recoil than a 20 oz steel frame with everything else (ammo, grips, etc) being equal.

Correction, that's 2 times the recoil.

 

[hoptob]

A 14 oz airweight has 4 times the felt recoil than a 20 oz steel frame with everything else (ammo, grips, etc) being equal.

Correction, that's 2 times the recoil.

Griz, how do you quantify felt recoil?

Mike

 

[sadlsor]

IF this is in fact, a carry gun, is the felt recoil really that important? Sure, you'll want to practice with it - that only makes sense - but IMO you won't be thinking, "This is gonna hurt my hand!" if you ever need to pull it for self-defense.

OTOH, I don't think a half-pound here or there will be a deal-breaker for a carry weapon.

Awww..., what do I know? I carry a stainless P14 in 1911.

 

[Oro]

For me, the "comfortable carry" equation is this:

1) Lightweight = 38 specials full power in an ALL STEEL j-frame, I deeply prefer the classic "Chief Special" 2" models 36 or 60. With proper combat grips and correct two-hand grip, the control is close to a 4" K frame with standard service Magna grips. Weight on these is about 19/20 ounces. I never feel shaving a few ounces off that for a more difficult gun to shoot is a wise choice. The idea of a .357 in a lightweight j-frame makes me, well, makes me ashamed for the S&W marketing department who demanded that product. The "old" company never would have sold such a thoughtless design.

2) "heavier" carry - 2.5" K frame model 66/19 with 158gr. .357 magnum SJHP, with finger-grooved wood combat grips. This is for winter clothing, coat pocket, or belt carry under sweaters, loose shirts, etc. A 2.5" 686 would be better, but the older K frame gets it done in a more concealable package.

To me, it does matter how I perceive the recoil even if it's a once-in-a-lifetime SD scenario because it dictates my accuracy and the speed of my follow-on shots. Lightweight guns that buck, bite, or make me anticipate the recoil are right out. Personally, I think the fad to ultra-lightweight guns is very misguided, and the question you are asking is very wise. After lots of testing and experimenting, I've set these as my "minimum guns" to shoot the ammo indicated. If I am open carrying in the field, woods, etc., I leave these guns at home and carry even larger ones with the same ammo.

 

[loneviking]

Just a suggestion, get a heavy 357 snubby and fire 38 specials out of it. The recoil will be a lot more manageable, if you can tolerate the muzzle blast.

 

[jfh]

I went through these issues last year--and here's what I recommend:

1. If you are serious about having a carry gun, and intend to carry daily, then get a lightweight.

2. If you get a lightweight, then plan on doing a fairly rigorous training program that includes a) a conditioning program for your hand, b) a lot of shooting to familiarity and proficiency with a 2" barrel, and c)using "successive approximations" to meet your goals.

3. I avoided the ultra-lightweights--my carry gun is a S&W M&P340--which weighs 13.3 oz.

I started out carrying the standard-pressure 38 Special 110-gr. rounds. However, I practiced first with the 38 Special 148-gr. bullseye rounds--and then developed my own reloads for practice.

Once your hand gets conditioned, the issues of recoil will go away--and that means the benefit of the lightweight in your pocket means you will always have it.

But, it takes a lot of shooting to get there in both proficiency and conditioning.

Jim H.

 

[pinkymingeo]

Amen on the conditioning. I shoot 50rds a week through my 340 and/or 360, and they no longer bother me. Takes time, though. Carry options depend on a lot of factors. I live in a tropical climate, wearing shorts and pullovers about 80% of the time. For concealment I pocket carry, and weight is critical. There's a noticeable difference between my 12oz guns and one that's 15oz. For me, +20oz is a bad joke. In the winter, when I can wear an extra layer, I have a 325 and 625-10, both 22oz. They're for IWB, not pocket, and as heavy as I'd want under any circumstances. Steel guns over 30oz? Why not carry an anvil and throw it at your assailant.

 

[Wolfeye]

"If so, what options do I have in gun selection?"

Lots... S&W has the most, and they vary in caliber, in the style of hammer they have, and in barrel length. You can get them in stainless, blued, and probably even nickeled. Browse around the Smith website and look in their J-frame section. Smiths are a little spendy, but not horribly so.

If you want cheap & light, Charter Arms makes a few. Their most interesting one is probably their .44 spl Bulldog. They have a spotty reputation.

If you want mid-priced and bombproof, Ruger makes their SP101 in a few popular calibers. I own their 2" .357 model, and it's very manageable even when loaded with magnums. It has a rubber grip that covers the backstrap, which helps a lot. It weighs 25.5 oz, and is too heavy for daily wear in my opinion. It's very fun to shoot at the range.

A good rubber grip can go a long way to reducing felt recoil. Hogue and Pachmayr both make 'em.

 

[GRIZ22]

Griz, how do you quantify felt recoil?

That should be free recoil and if your hands, if they could measure accurately, would be able to determione the difference. I also confused formulae (recoil and muzzle energy) so the correct answer is the 14 oz gun recoils about 50% more than the steel frame.

If you are serious about having a carry gun, and intend to carry daily, then get a lightweight.


I have been seriously carrying a gun for almost 35 years and I never carried (or even owned) a lightweight. Why do you consider a lightweight a carry requirement?

I am not a really big guy (5-11 and 240 now, about 200 when I started carrying) and am not a wimp when it comes to recoil. The training regimen you prescribe may work but a few extra ounces of gun does not bother me. I pocket carry and my all steel J frame doesn't bother me at all. I carry a steel K frame and 1911 and the extra weight is no problem. I would also bet that your recovery time between shots would be better with a steel frame.

IF this is in fact, a carry gun, is the felt recoil really that important? Sure, you'll want to practice with it - that only makes sense - but IMO you won't be thinking, "This is gonna hurt my hand!" if you ever need to pull it for self-defense.


While recoil will most likely be a non-issue if you have to use your gun, heavy recoil does not encourage more practice. I wonder why someone would go through some of the conditioning regimens listed but feel an extra 6-8 oz of gun is "too much, unbearable, etc".

 

[Ichiro]

Lightweight snubs hurt to shoot.
Steel snubs are easier to shoot, but more difficult to carry.
Neither is a good shooter, compared to larger guns.

If wadcutters hurt, this is probably not the gun for you. That's a heavy and slow round. The lighter and faster rounds are even worse. +P is not fun at all unless you fit your J-frame with oversized grips and wear it like a big gun.

 

[Lou22]

I carried a Charter 2000 Undercover .38 snub for a while. Even though it has a steel frame it weighs only 16oz. Because it has soft rubber grips, the recoil is very mild. The only caveat with the Charter 2000's is their somewhat spotty reliability. Mine was 100% and always went bang. The only reason I sold it was this one had the hammer spur, which I don't like for pocket carry. I believe you get the same gun without the spur.

Lou

 

[Mooseman]

If you get the chance try the Ruger sp101. It is heavier and maybe a little harder to conceal but very pleasant to shoot. I wear mine IWB and I really never notice the weight, can't recommend it for pocket carry though.

 

[Sistema1927]

When I carry a revolver, it is a S&W 642 in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster, with an extra speed-strip (5+6 .38+P 135 gr.)

Most of the time I carry a Kahr PM9, in the same pocket holster, with an extra mag. (7+7 9mm 147 gr.)

This is what works for me, YMMV.

 

[Stainz]

If you carry a CCW, it must be retrieveable rapidly and efficiently first - a comfortable shooter is a distant requirement. I hate that... all my instincts work to make everything I own go bang as a plinker... even my AirLite 296 .44 Special. Of course, as it had to be an OWB pancake holster rider, it saw 2% carry at most. Then I got it a Mikas pocket holster - and I bought one for a 642, too - in case I broke down and 'wasted' that much moola on a dedicated non-plinker. I carried ~70% of the time - great improvement... the 296 fit in my pocket - and could be yanked out in seconds and deliver five 200gr Gold Dots in a bg torso at 7-12yd quickly - leaving my hand stinging, of course.

I broke down and bought a LNIB 642-2 - and now carry 98% of the time (Never in the bank!). It is at the edge - more mass, as in a SS version, and I'd need suspenders, methinks. I am not fond of launching my 158gr +P LHSWCs, the so-called 'FBI' loads, but keeping familiar with it and them is important. I use the GA Arms similar reloads for practice, Remington R38S12s for carry. My 2" 10 also carries them - as my wife's house/car gun. Night and day difference in recoil, of course - twice the mass - and an extra round - help. If I carried in a holster again - it'd be the one - it has a shooter's grip, too - not the dimunitive, necessary for concealment, boots of the 296 & 642.

I guess my point is simple - carry it concealled easily - and it may not be much of a plinker. Two totally different job descriptions.

Stainz

 

[doc540]

Difference is night and day between my 642 Airweight and steel Model 36.

Difference is dawn and high noon between my Colt DS and the Model 36.

There are always going to be trade-off's and compromises between power, recoil and concealability. The Colt's my choice at this time.

 

[sixgunner455]

642-2: Airweight, boot grip, pocket carry. No fun to shoot +p through. Painful on my arthritic wrist. Standard pressure factory loads are not bad, but somewhat uncomfortable. Standard pressure 125 gr Speer GD hollow points are easy shooting. 148 gr wadcutters, light 158 gr lead reloads are okay, too.

Colt DS: all steel, Hogue monogrip, belt carry. Can shoot anything comfortably, but I don't do +p because it will take the gun out of time faster. Standard pressure loads, I can shoot all day long in this gun. I quit when I get bored or run out of ammo.

I carry the 642 most of any of my guns. I shoot it a lot, too, and dry fire it, and am actually more accurate with it than my old Military & Police revolver.

 

[Commander Crusty]

Happy with .38 Airweight

I have access to a wide range of handguns, but the one I carry the most BY FAR is my S&W 638 Airweight. I took this revolver out of the box new and fired the 30 round qualification course from Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme" with a passing score. This with factory rubber grips. My hand hurt for a WEEK! Of course, I have a mild case of muscular dystrophy too.

The gunsmith's at Hyatt Gunshop in Charlotte, NC put lighter springs in this little goober and the trigger is even more controllable. I recently tried some generic brand .38 full wadcutter target loads and they were SUCH a joy to shoot--even with the little grips and aluminum frame. However, the lighter springs didn't match with the generic ammo--although this handgun has never misfired with Winchester or Federal Loads. I would actually like to carry Federal Full Wadcutters Target loads, if I can find them or maybe the same thing from Buffalo Bore.

Now I have a light gun I can carry for years without discomfort plus some practice loads that make it easy to train, and defensive loads I KNOW I can hit with. This purchase has worked out very well for me.

 

[TimboKhan]

I carry a snub (Taurus 605) and I can shoot it all day comfortably. I shot a Ti Smith, and I will never shoot another lightweight again.

I personally can see no reason for this. My performance isn't any better with the lightweight, I can carry my 605 all day long comfortably, and I can practice with it comfortably. I flatly fail to see any real advantage to a lightweight, but thats just me.

 

[Dirtypacman]

I agree with others for the conditioning.. it helped me feel confident in my choice a S&W 642.

At this point I am very confident in my abilities with it and feel that a revolver gives you about the best reliability you can ask for.

 

[rdrancher]

If you want mid-priced and bombproof, Ruger makes their SP101 in a few popular calibers. I own their 2" .357 model, and it's very manageable even when loaded with magnums. It has a rubber grip that covers the backstrap, which helps a lot. It weighs 25.5 oz, and is too heavy for daily wear in my opinion. It's very fun to shoot at the range.

If you get the chance try the Ruger sp101. It is heavier and maybe a little harder to conceal but very pleasant to shoot. I wear mine IWB and I really never notice the weight, can't recommend it for pocket carry though.

Yep, too much weight for the pocket, but oh so sweet on the belt. Shoot 158gr magnums 'til you puke...the SP101 will handle it.

rd