So my gas tube was alligned at exactly 30 lb ft . . .

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Arizona_Mike

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I tried to take it to 50 lb ft and then 80 but only got about 3/4 the way to the next notch, so I loosened it and went back to 30. I've never had this happen before and feel oddly anxious about accuracy of the torque wrench, etc. Am I good? No need for a shim?

Mike
 
Don't obsess about torque on AR barrel nuts. There is no magic number. Tight enough to keep the barrel on is tight enough - firm but not excessive. That upper can be wrecked if you overdo it. No need to use a torque wrench at all.
 
Did you loosen and retighten a few times? If it feels tight 30 ft-lb is the min
 
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Don't obsess about torque on AR barrel nuts. There is no magic number. Tight enough to keep the barrel on is tight enough - firm but not excessive. That upper can be wrecked if you overdo it. No need to use a torque wrench at all.

This. I dont even own a torque wrench, (Ive built five reliable ARs, a few planned right now). Ive found that there arent a whole lot of special tools youll need for ARs. I would recommend the standard multi-tool though.
 
I've been doing some reading and apparently you can get the nut to turn more if you reseat multiple times. 3 is the minimum. I'll give it another try this weekend.

Mike
 
I would have posted a pic but I lost the damn flash hider somewhere, so I did not finish this weekend. It came in the mail Friday and I misplaced it. Need to clean my work area :)
Also Rainier is shipping my dust cover hardware separately due to an error (they are covering postage--good company).

300BLK 11.5" pistol gas 1 in 8" build. Rainier Arms no-FA upper receiver, AR Stoner barrel, 9" Sampson Evolution rail, BCM Mod 4. Right now I'm just using a factory Colt carrier/bolt.

Mike
 
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The spec at 80 foot pounds is a maximum to prevent stripping the threads, not a spec to achieve. Don't lose sleep over it. I tightened mine with a pair of large channel locks. My choice, nicks in the teeth are really no big deal.

If you use the "specified" tool and attach a torque wrench, the actual leverage isn't the indicated number. That is because the tool adds to the overall length. The number is just that, an indicated setting, and it's to prevent a twentysomething armorer from going apey all over the nut and causing damage. In this case, if enough is good, just stop. Too much is a damaged upper that is unrepairable.

All you are doing is capturing the barrel extension in the upper to trap it and keep the barrel from falling off. There's no track record of 30 pound guns having issues, millions have been assembled and nobody ever talks about it.

Overtorqued and damaged uppers, yes. Especially when trying to torque flash hiders or remove them, the barrel needs to be firmly held, NOT the upper. Otherwise the barrel stop pin rips out of the nose slot.

Looking at pics posted online of the Colt assembly benches, IIRC I didn't see armorer's tools. They are a GI set for dismantling all the unit guns, including the big MG's, too. Colt doesn't bother buying stuff they don't need assembling a product they've worked with over 45 years. It's not rocket science, just some nuts and pins that go together a certain way with minimum fuss. Most of the tools "recommended" are touted by tool collectors, and aren't needed for a one gun build - if ever. Plenty of us have put them together without them.
 
I would have posted a pic but I lost the damn flash hider somewhere, so I did not finish this weekend. It came in the mail Friday and I misplaced it. Need to clean my work area :)
Also Rainier is shipping my dust cover hardware separately due to an error (they are covering postage--good company).

300BLK 11.5" pistol gas 1 in 8" build. Rainier Arms no-FA upper receiver, AR Stoner barrel, 9" Sampson Evolution rail, BCM Mod 4. Right now I'm just using a factory Colt carrier/bolt.

Mike

I have wanted to do a .300 SBR build soooo bad. Ive already bought the receiver set. NFA is going to be a pain in the butt though.....

I know what you mean by cleaning the work area. Ive litterally got buckets of large and small parts sitting right under my bench, and if something goes in one, its a pita to get out. I should probably rethink those buckets....
 
Having built many AR's (several dozen) I've never seen/had issues with barrel nuts with as little as 20ft-lbs of torque. I've built many a varmint set up torqued to the minimum of 25ft-lbs. And if you look at a lot of the aftermarket free float tube/rails/tactical hand guards, most of those recommend a torque spec. of not much beyond 25ft-lbs. Long story short: 30ft-lbs is plenty.
 
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I've read that AR's tend to be more accurate when the barrel nut is on the lower end of the torque range but can't verify this personally. The barrel nut that came with my Troy TRX rail absolutely would not align within the range so I had to order a new one which went on with no issue.

If you're getting it to 30 lbs though i'm not sure what the problem is. I thought 30 lbs was within spec? By the way, if you loosen and then retighten you could very well end up where 30 lbs puts you beyond the slot its on now and you still can't reach the next one while staying under 80. I say leave it be.
 
Tirod said:
If you use the "specified" tool and attach a torque wrench, the actual leverage isn't the indicated number. That is because the tool adds to the overall length.

Turn the torque wrench 90 degrees, perpendicular to the armorers tool. Presto, actual torque value.
 
Hopefully, the OP is using good grease or anti-seize on the receiver threads. If so, then he can tighten and retighten 100 times, and he's not going to get to 50 lbs/ft, given his accounting so far.

I believe the minimum torque specifification in the Marine Corps manual that came with my first AR showed a minimum of about 33 lbs/ft. I'm sure that lining the hole up @ 30 lbs/ft would be fine.

This ain't rocket science. Just install the barrel and get on with it! ;)
 
The last two I built aligned at min. torque and they shoot some of the best groups. I normally force it to the next notch, but I've been rethinking that after getting good results at the min. I square the receivers, use antisieze and retorque several times before looking at alignment.
One of these barrels was a no-name elcheapo 16" and it shoots under 1" @ 100 with the first loads I tried.
 
This. I dont even own a torque wrench, (Ive built five reliable ARs, a few planned right now). Ive found that there arent a whole lot of special tools youll need for ARs. I would recommend the standard multi-tool though.

You are definitely right about not needing a lot of special tools. I once tightened a barrel nut with a hammer and punch. Never had a problem shooting it afterwards. I don't think I over-torqued.:D
 
Nom de Forum- I've been there, though I've never had to use a punch, haha, honestly, right now I don't even remember how I got them on, probably some wrench or another.

Every time I read one of these threads, I'm suddenly worried that I built one of my rifles incorrectly. (I haven't. They all work very well and aren't falling apart, so I guess I've got it right.)
 
Look at it this way,
30 Foot pounds is 460 INCH pounds.
Most bolts up to 3/4" begin to snap at between 30-50 Foot Pounds of torque.
 
Most bolts up to 3/4" begin to snap at between 30-50 Foot Pounds of torque.

If the hex head of the bolt is what is meant, maybe. Bolts are not sized by whatever head is on them, it's the actual diameter of the threads (and we don't need root diameter vs shank or all that.)

A 3/4 bolt is huge, and can take torque values in multiple hundreds of foot pounds. The problem is how torque is measured - it's really a value of resistance to turning. All lube, it suddenly changes, use a different style of thread, say, rollled vs. cut, more changes.

The high end of the torque value for the M16 at the barrel nut is given at about 85 foot pounds, using the tool and a torque wrench measure it, and it's assembled in a straight line, not clocked at a different angle. When using extensions on torque wrenches, you either go thru more math to get a real value - or do like the Army does and use the one they already calculated.

It's not rocket science, the directions are that - directives, do it this way. But that is the nature of the organization and it's infrastructure. For someone who's been involved in tech and mechanics for over 40 years, the underlying issues are what are important. You are twisting a steel nut down on an aluminum threaded pipe end of the receiver capturing the barrel extension.

It's not rocket science, same as torquing lug nuts on a car. Go no more than the value given - or live with the results. You torque it three times to work burrs off the threads of both, taking out the slack, and then set it to let the gas tube pass. 80 foot pounds give a lot of lee way.

The factory has the advantage that if something isn't working out, they can change things around and make it work out, they have a lot to choose from. They do that in advance by measuring and sorting all the parts and then putting the most compatible combinations together. We don't - neither does the armorer in the field. That has been taken into account.

One thing mentioned can and does give more room to get the fit right - squaring the nose on the upper. If things are going together too tightly, back off, hold the nose down against some high number grit wet and dry sandpaper, and keeping it absolutely vertical, give it some swirls. Knocking of a few thousandths of anodizing can make a huge difference. Go slow and check frequently, if you go too far, you are back to square one.

Sending parts back is really unnecessary. Understanding the mechanical principles will get you better results than slavishly following rules meant to be explained in a long course over weeks. We're just looking over their shoulders and reading somebody else's mail, so to speak.
 
Mike, if you are going to obsess over getting that nut up to 35 ft.lbs you really need to check your wrench calibration first. It may well be indicating 30 with about 35 applied. The opposite might be true as well.

I personally wouldn't care. I'd rather have one tightened on the light side for easier maintenance in the future. If your gun shot well, I'd call it good enough.

I own multiple torque wrenches and use them whenever possible in assembly of anything. If I had the spec, I'd probably use one to tighten my ball point pen after I replaced the ink cartridge - but - if I had to put my shoes on to go fetch the wrench I wouldn't feel bad about skipping it on an AR barrel nut. Tirod's previous post pretty much sums up the perspective you need on this job.
 
Frosty, I agree. Guns and cars I torque everything. I own 4 torque wrenches in multiple drive sizes and 3 torque driver sets (2 fixed and one adjustable).

Mike
 
You're all making me feel like I'm missing something when I don't check the torque when building my rifles. They work dandy though.
 
I stopped using a torque wrench a long time ago.
85 foot pounds on the barrel nut will usually distort the front receiver wall and take heat and a large breaker bar to loosen and when you get that far you will discover that the receiver is effectively trashed.

We were routinely snapping 3/4" top quality fixture bolts at 65 foot pounds until the engineers made a process change & dropped the torque requirement to 45 foot pounds.

It is also easy to tell when someone has overtorqued the barrel nut or tube since the tube holes and/or barrel lugs are trashed.
 
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